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Thread: Starter hone setup....

  1. #1
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    Default Starter hone setup....

    I have been looking around and trying to figure out how to get a good hone setup to maintain and restore straights. I know that I dont want a norton 4k/8k stone. Ive looked at getting a Spyderco set up, all three stones or a DMT 8K 8 by 3 inch diamond plate. With the DMT I would get a polishing stone. A Spyderco Extra Fine or a Chinese 12k. I just wanna know what you guys think.....
    “Know first who you are, and then adorn yourself accordingly.” — Epictetus

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  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyAngel View Post
    I have been looking around and trying to figure out how to get a good hone setup to maintain and restore straights. I know that I dont want a norton 4k/8k stone. Ive looked at getting a Spyderco set up, all three stones or a DMT 8K 8 by 3 inch diamond plate. With the DMT I would get a polishing stone. A Spyderco Extra Fine or a Chinese 12k. I just wanna know what you guys think.....
    I'd get the 8K DMT hone and the Chinese 12K... however with the Chinese 12K you're going to need a DMT D8C to flatten it - which is really a miserable experience
    - Joel
    joel (at) badgerandblade.com

  3. #3

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    Why don't you want the Norton? Its really the standard. Of course there are other ways to do it but if you wanted the ultimate for maint. and restor probably a Norton 1K, the Norton 4K/8K and either a Coticule or escher if you can find one. That would be all you would ever need to do just about everything.

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thebigspendur View Post
    Why don't you want the Norton? Its really the standard. Of course there are other ways to do it but if you wanted the ultimate for maint. and restor probably a Norton 1K, the Norton 4K/8K and either a Coticule or escher if you can find one. That would be all you would ever need to do just about everything.
    Have you tried the 8K DMT? It's pretty amazing.... it cuts faster than a 4K norton, is REALLY hard to get a wire edge on (which makes it easy as all heck to use) and it leaves a smoother polish than an 8K norton it's as flat as you're gonna get, it NEVER needs to be lapped - and it doesn't have to be soaked prior to use.... for the same money as the 4/8K - it's a no brainer for me.
    - Joel
    joel (at) badgerandblade.com

  5. #5
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    Default

    I am also looking to purchase my first set of hones.

    After reading The Interactive Guide, I was thinking that I would go with three Spydercos, but now that I have seen this perhaps the DMT plus a spyderco ultrafine would be better, as I would not have to worry about lapping the fine and medium Spydercos.

    I am having a hard time finding information about the DMT; the search will not let me search for "DMT" as it is too short of a word.

    Joel, could you add a page on the DMT stone to the Interactive Guide?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    Have you tried the 8K DMT? It's pretty amazing.... it cuts faster than a 4K norton, is REALLY hard to get a wire edge on (which makes it easy as all heck to use) and it leaves a smoother polish than an 8K norton it's as flat as you're gonna get, it NEVER needs to be lapped - and it doesn't have to be soaked prior to use.... for the same money as the 4/8K - it's a no brainer for me.
    No, I haven't tried it. Frankly I have so many hones now I'm trying to avoid becoming addicted to this also. Besides if I buy anymore stones my wife is going to start hitting me over the head with them.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKB View Post
    I am having a hard time finding information about the DMT; the search will not let me search for "DMT" as it is too short of a word.
    Problem solved with google advanced search.



    I just put in orders for a Spyderco UF, DMT 8k, and a new 5/8 TI Gnome to try to sharpen.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SKB View Post
    Problem solved with google advanced search.



    I just put in orders for a Spyderco UF, DMT 8k, and a new 5/8 TI Gnome to try to sharpen.
    If you're new to straight razors - you DEFINITELY do not want to try to sharpen your first razor.... and you especially don't want to do so with a nice/new razor you'll likely mess up
    Last edited by joel; 01-17-2008 at 08:43 AM.
    - Joel
    joel (at) badgerandblade.com

  9. #9

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    Agreed. I may not agree on the stone choices but I agree that you want to sent the TI out to someone to hone it first. I use a fine continuous diamond plate to set bevels, lap stones, and work out small chips. I have a 220/1000 norton for more advanced stuff. I use the norton 4/8 k combo to sharpen. I then use either an etcher or shapton 15k to finish. Finally I use pastes to take it up to the sharpness I need. Then I linnen strop and regular strop. Any combo of those would be my choice. I will be getting coticules to add to the list but not right at this moment. Spyderco has not got my interest.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    If you're new to straight razors - you DEFINITELY do not want to try to sharpen your first razor.... and you especially don't want to do so with a nice/new razor you'll likely mess up
    Thanks for the concern.

    This will be my second razor. My other is a 5/8 Dovo honed by Lynn.

    I do not like the idea of shaving with a used razor, so I went with the cheapest TI.

  11. #11

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    Used? Are you a germaphobe cause you can sterilize a razor. Just go get some barbacide or swab with alchohol. "Used" razors i.e. vintage are the best kind IMO except for the customs. I own 1 new razor and never use it. It is a Dovo Bismark. I wouldn't even get the new B&B razor if it didn't have the vintage blanks. And I own 50 razors all vintage but 1(customs are on order and on the way). Give one a try and you will be surprised.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    Have you tried the 8K DMT? It's pretty amazing.... it cuts faster than a 4K norton, is REALLY hard to get a wire edge on (which makes it easy as all heck to use) and it leaves a smoother polish than an 8K norton it's as flat as you're gonna get, it NEVER needs to be lapped - and it doesn't have to be soaked prior to use.... for the same money as the 4/8K - it's a no brainer for me.
    where can you get an 8K DMT Joel ?

  13. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by denissawyer View Post
    where can you get an 8K DMT Joel ?
    Craftsmanstudio has the cheapest price i've seen and killer service. The neat thing about the 8K DMT, is that unlike other DMT's it's broken in at the factory and right when you get it, it should be smooth and ready for use - which is not the case with the coarser stones.

    Just today I honed up a razor and shaved with it ONLY using the DMT 8K, and I was quite impressed.

    I just purchased a computer microscope, so i'll be able to take all sorts of snazzy pics and post 'em of what edges/bevels look like, how the different stones cut, etc
    - Joel
    joel (at) badgerandblade.com

  14. #14
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    Default

    I don't like the Norton either, I just hate the soaking bit: too messy for me.

    I am very happy with a Shapton 1500 and 5000 followed by a coticule or Escher. You'll only need a Shapton 1500 if you want to hone out little chips, pitting. If you have a shave ready razor you'll only need a coticule or Escher for touch ups.

    I don't use pastes, was never really lucky with CrO2. Currently I use a Nakayama for extra sharpening after the Escher but that's for more advanced honing.

  15. #15
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    I got my DMT 8000 and 5/8 TI Super Gnome in yesterday.

    I tried the basic x-pattern with water and a few drops of soap, but it does not seem to be getting sharp.

    The blade is curved (see picture). Do I need to be doing something different?

    I went at it for about two hours. I rinsed the stone and blade and tested for sharpness every ten minutes or so. The blade is starting to rust from being wet so long, so I decided to give it a rest.

    I marked the edge with a marker, and I do seem to be removing steel all the way to the edge, but I do not seem to be doing anything quickly.

    Any suggestions?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails razor.jpg  
    Last edited by SKB; 01-20-2008 at 09:48 AM.

  16. #16
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    After reading Joel's comments about the DMT 8000 (3 micron), I'm leaning toward that instead of the Norton 8000. I'm seeking opinions about what to do for the coarser grits.

    I've just purchased a used razor lot of 7 razors from eBay, and I dropped my Wapi several days ago and will need to hone a good-sized ding out of it.

    So I'll need a variety of grits. Originally I was going to get a Norton 4000/8000, and a Norton 1000, or a 1000/220 combination.

    If I get the DMT 8k, which other stones should I get? Two obvious choices are the DMT 9 micron, which would equate roughly to a 2700 grit, or a Norton 1000/4000 combination.

    Would those two DMT plates give me the cutting power I need, or do I need a coarser one? Does the DMT 9 micron need to be lapped? What do you use to lap a diamond plate, a coarser diamond plate?

    And I know there are other choices. I'm not ruling anything out, but at my current level of experience with honing -- very little, and none of it successful -- I'm relying heavily on the advice I get here.

  17. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SKB View Post
    I got my DMT 8000 and 5/8 TI Super Gnome in yesterday.

    I tried the basic x-pattern with water and a few drops of soap, but it does not seem to be getting sharp.

    The blade is curved (see picture). Do I need to be doing something different?

    I went at it for about two hours. I rinsed the stone and blade and tested for sharpness every ten minutes or so. The blade is starting to rust from being wet so long, so I decided to give it a rest.

    I marked the edge with a marker, and I do seem to be removing steel all the way to the edge, but I do not seem to be doing anything quickly.

    Any suggestions?
    You have severely over-honed the hell out of it. A DMT cuts, VERY, I mean VERY fast. Keep in mind 30 seconds on a DMT hone is equivalent to 7-10 minutes on a traditional hone. Many new razors only require just a FEW strokes on the DMT (maybe 4) before you move on to a finishing hone. Diamond is the hardest, and most aggressive abrasive agent. Use ZERO pressure, and very few strokes.

    If you were to look at the razor under magnification, you'd likely see a big ole wire edge. Grab a wood match stick and lightly run the razors edge across the wood 4-5 times, which should break off the wire edge. Do 3 sets (front and back) of backhoning just to make certain - which is basically doing a NO PRESSURE stropping motion on the hone. Now, try 3-4 strokes (front and back) on the DMT 8K, and you should be in good shape. Again - these cut VERY quickly - and if you do the math on 30 seconds versus 7-10 minutes, ONE stroke on the DMT 8K is about equal to 20 on a Norton 8K, so be VERY light with your stroke, and don't do many at all, or you'll VERY quickly overhone the razor, and get a frustratingly unsharp edge.
    - Joel
    joel (at) badgerandblade.com

  18. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magruder View Post
    After reading Joel's comments about the DMT 8000 (3 micron), I'm leaning toward that instead of the Norton 8000. I'm seeking opinions about what to do for the coarser grits.

    I've just purchased a used razor lot of 7 razors from eBay, and I dropped my Wapi several days ago and will need to hone a good-sized ding out of it.

    So I'll need a variety of grits. Originally I was going to get a Norton 4000/8000, and a Norton 1000, or a 1000/220 combination.

    If I get the DMT 8k, which other stones should I get? Two obvious choices are the DMT 9 micron, which would equate roughly to a 2700 grit, or a Norton 1000/4000 combination.

    Would those two DMT plates give me the cutting power I need, or do I need a coarser one? Does the DMT 9 micron need to be lapped? What do you use to lap a diamond plate, a coarser diamond plate?

    And I know there are other choices. I'm not ruling anything out, but at my current level of experience with honing -- very little, and none of it successful -- I'm relying heavily on the advice I get here.
    You never need to lap a DMT plate (one of the big benefits) and what you need in addition to the 8K plate is really your call... it depends how much, how often, and what type/condition of razors you plan on honing. As stated in my previous post in this thread, keep in mind a DMT plate cuts about 20X faster than a traditional oil or waterstone, so the stones are pretty versatile.
    - Joel
    joel (at) badgerandblade.com

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by joel View Post
    what you need in addition to the 8K plate is really your call... it depends how much, how often, and what type/condition of razors you plan on honing.
    That's a nice surprise -- if the DMT 8k is all I need to remove that ding from the blade, that means I only have to buy one plate, and I have more to spend on razors.

  20. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magruder View Post
    That's a nice surprise -- if the DMT 8k is all I need to remove that ding from the blade, that means I only have to buy one plate, and I have more to spend on razors.
    Uhhh... I never said a DMT 8K would remove a ding from a razor I was merely pointing out - you might not want to buy 6 hones to repair one razor - and never really use the hones again if you aren't going to be sharpening ebay specials, and pretty beat up/damaged razors.
    - Joel
    joel (at) badgerandblade.com

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