Converting a MIII/Fusion shaver into a DE Shaver...it's a tough road

[waliguy]

I read the article on Zenhabits.net about wet shaving, followed by the comments. It was a well written article, informative, and to the point. Both some positive comments, and some very negative ones were added.

I'm a recently converted DE shaver, who was simply in pursuit of a closer shave than my Mach III was providing.

It just seems to me that there are two camps. In one camp...the disposable cartridge guy. Time pressed, just git 'er done shaver. Shaving just isn't that big of a deal to him. And no matter what you say, they just won't consider a DE shave.

Some are the new generation of shavers are plugged with zillions of marketing dollars to get the 4-5 blade cartridges. Plus, most of them never saw their dad use a DE.

In the other camp...the DE shaver. They have the DE (or several), plus soaps, creams, AS, etc. Shaving for them (like many on this board, myself included) is just as much about the closeness of the shave, as the total shaving experience.

Shaving is a matter of personal preference. Whatever works for you. I just don't like to see some of the stubborness exhibited by both camps.

[Wade253]

+1 Every upscale wet-shaving online supplier whether Classicshaving.com, Em's place, the English Shaving Company, etc. sell Mach 3 razors. Check out wherever it is you bought your most prized brush, etc. Bridget from the English Shaving Company mentioned in one of the threads on this board I found surfing that most English gentlemen do not use Safety Razors. If all M3 user are Cretans, then why are these places selling them? Some who like fine badger brushes, shave creams, etc. do care and use various products such as M3s also and may enjoy them. Why not use what works?

[joel]

Personally, I welcome all shavers.... even blade chuckers Seriously though, different products work for different fellas. For example - my father uses a Mach III, and get ONE MONTH out of each blade. He buys the blades in bulk on ebay, and gets them pretty inexpensively. With a Mach III and old blades, he gets very close, irritation free shaves with ZERO ingrown hairs, etc. For him, a DE just doesn't make and sense. Now, he has a shaving brush and loves using shaving soaps, and feels he get MUCH better results using a good shaving brush/soap - but trying to talk him into touching a DE or a straight razor is a losing battle. Personally - I'm jealous, as it'd be nice to be able to use almost anything and get a killer shave. If I use a Mach III, i'm rewarded with irritation, ingrown hairs, and a piss poor shave.

Different tools for different folks - but regardless of your razor, you're welcome here at B&B.

[yardpup01]

The nice thing about B&B is that it is about finding what works for you. Everyone likes something different and that is one of the things that makes this place great. Plus you'll never find a nicer bunch of gents.

[masonjarjar]

It just seems to me that there are two camps. In one camp...the disposable cartridge guy. Time pressed, just git 'er done shaver. Shaving just isn't that big of a deal to him. And no matter what you say, they just won't consider a DE shave.

Well, we're not ALL like that..

And it would help if ya'll didn't treat cartridge shavers like idiots.

You say.. "YMMV" - "do what works for you"

Then you laugh out of the other side of your mouth whenever someone mentions an MIII.

Well, which is it?

I really enjoy shaving, I have for years.. I've been using a brush and shaving soap for most of my shaving life. I love using good aftershaves and other "products" that get discussed around here. And I use an Atra.

Yet, some guy stumbles in here with a brand new DE and $100 worth of other "stuff" he just read about on some website.. after years and years of getting "crappy shaves" with his bic or whatever.. and he's given the red carpet.

It just bugs me sometimes. it's like.. having a website devoted to discussing different religions.. yet it's just kind of "ok" for everyone to razz on the Buddhists..

[masonjarjar]

Different tools for different folks - but regardless of your razor, you're welcome here at B&B.

That's the line that everyone totes.. Whatever works for you... and I love your site, don't get me wrong.. I freaking love my Floris samples, which I never would have discovered if it weren't for this place.

But.. I posted a picture once of my meager collection. Thinking, maybe I'll post another picture later on as my collection grows. I'm not so sure now, since most of the comments were along the lines of "where's your DE man??" "Where's your straight.. huhuhuh"

I do have a sense of humor. Really. But, I just do get this attitude some times that it's open season on cartridge guys.

-Mason

[waliguy]

masonjar, you elaborated on the point I was trying to make. Well put.

I think cartridges get ripped on 80% of the threads I see on B&B. And I'm just call it like I see it posted.

I use both a DE and a Mach III (for my headshave). And I like the advantages of the closeness/experience for my DE faceshave, and the advantages of the comfort/security for my Mach III headshave.

I'm glad I've gotten into DE shaving.

But you have to admit, tolerance can be low...in both camps.

[masonjarjar]

masonjar, you elaborated on the point I was trying to make. Well put.

I think cartridges get ripped on 80% of the threads I see on B&B. And I'm just call it like I see it posted.

I use both a DE and a Mach III (for my headshave). And I like the advantages of the closeness/experience for my DE faceshave, and the advantages of the comfort/security for my Mach III headshave.

I'm glad I've gotten into DE shaving.

But you have to admit, tolerance can be low...in both camps.

It's cool, it was something I've been wanting to mention ever since I've come here, but never really felt it was worth it to bring it up. There are all kinds of personalities represented on this board, and to be honest, if you gather a random group of 100 men off the street, I might get along with 2 or 3 of them. I know that with guys a certain amount of razzing is to be expected. Maybe I should razz back more, but it's not really in my nature.

I'm really hoping to one day try a DE, just for now, it's not really in the cards. Maybe I'll try an injector. Who knows. But for now I enjoy what I have. It works for me. I don't go around trying to convince DE shavers to switch back because I know that every face is different, and they use a DE for a reason.

-Mason

[Wade253]

Curious that it is basically M3 criticism. Even the post level monikers such as In M3 Remission, etc. point to a sort of DE religious conversion (cultic!) to use the earlier religious analogy. Lately threads are opened for the primary purpose of ragging on cartridges. Perhaps it is because it is something that poses the best alternative to DE shaving. One need not use negative approaches as the positives of the DE shave stand on its own. It is not an either/or but a both/and that makes shaving options work.

[masonjarjar]

Curious that it is basically M3 criticism. Even the post level monikers such as In M3 Remission, etc. point to a sort of DE religious conversion (cultic!) to use the earlier religious analogy. Lately threads are opened for the primary purpose of ragging on cartridges. Perhaps it is because it is something that poses the best alternative to DE shaving. One need not use negative approaches as the positives of the DE shave stand on its own. It is not an either/or but a both/and that makes shaving options work.

Well, I do understand that for many men, the DE conversion is somewhat of a religious experience, especially if they never really took the time to learn about wet shaving. That's great. People that undergo conversions often want to "spread the word." And that's fine too.. but guys... don't put down those that choose to follow a different path than you. But there will always be fundies.. go to a cooking board, a knitting board, a parenting board, you will find those who say that their way is the best.. that's just human nature I guess.


-Mason

[yardpup01]

I'd say a lot of the anti cartridge sentiment comes from the fact that many of the people who make their way to this board or this type of wet shaving is that they had terrible experiences with the M3 getting ingrowns and burn. I was lucky, I've never had ingrowns or terrible irritation, I found this site because I wanted a closer shave. No matter how hard I tried I could never get a close shave. I tried a DE and found it worked wonderfully for me. I hope that in the end this is a community of people just trying to enjoy life, in whatever form that may be.

Mason- From your posts and the musical discussion we had back when I first joined, I've always had a high opinion of you and how you conduct yourself. I hope I have never offended anyone on this board by forgetting the mission and razzing those whose choices differ from mine.

That was rather long winded, but it comes from the heart.

[masonjarjar]

I'd say a lot of the anti cartridge sentiment comes from the fact that many of the people who make their way to this board or this type of wet shaving is that they had terrible experiences with the M3 getting ingrowns and burn. I was lucky, I've never had ingrowns or terrible irritation, I found this site because I wanted a closer shave. No matter how hard I tried I could never get a close shave. I tried a DE and found it worked wonderfully for me. I hope that in the end this is a community of people just trying to enjoy life, in whatever form that may be.

Mason- From your posts and the musical discussion we had back when I first joined, I've always had a high opinion of you and how you conduct yourself. I hope I have never offended anyone on this board by forgetting the mission and razzing those whose choices differ from mine.

That was rather long winded, but it comes from the heart.

It's cool.. I understand that most of time the ire is aimed at the tool (m3, fusion, etc) and NOT the person using it. But sometimes, the line does get a little fuzzy.

Thanks for your post.

-Mason

[rabidpotatochip]

It's cool.. I understand that most of time the ire is aimed at the tool (m3, fusion, etc) and NOT the person using it. But sometimes, the line does get a little fuzzy.

Thanks for your post.

-Mason

In my defense, I made stupid remarks about the Mach 3 when I was still using one too.

I'm into motorcycles, or was until a certain incident, and we all bugged the guy who showed up on a bike that looked like it barely post-dated the wheel, but it was still fun to have him around and he still had a blast. Maybe not a great analogy but it's the best I can come up with for now. I think the reason the Mach 3 and it's cousins take a lot of flak here is because so many people were unable to achieve satisfactory results with them and didn't realize there were other options available to them. When they finally did try those options it was a lifestyle-changing experience.

I respect that there are people that can get a good shave from cartridge razors, but in my case I could just as well rub sandpaper on my face. As for the jokes, everyone gets poked fun at; they've actually made up and named every kind of acquisition disorder here. Don't take it too seriously, and if you have, I'm really sorry for the comments I made regarding Mach 3s.

[singlemalt65]

I love my DE(s) but most of the time I use my fusion, because I get a good shave with the razor and I can shave safely and quickly. Cartridge or not, I love the soaps, creams etc. and the discussion about shaving period.

I am clearly in the camp of ... use what you like and what works for you.

I love B&B and frankly it is easy for me to ignore any bias I have seen, since I have long since passed caring if people are going to judge me, especially related to shaving.

Happy Holidays to all at B&B!

Bruce

[Magruder]

Most of us who hang around here are not 'typical' shavers. The Sensor/Mach III/Fusion or whatever seem to work well enough for the huge majority of guys. That's why Gillette and Schick make so much money. Those of us who have -- had -- constant irritation, bumps, razor burn, and were motivated enough, or lucky enough, to find a better way, are a minority.

The attraction of this type of shaving for me is that we've figured out how to turn what was, at best, a daily chore into something we look forward to each day. Of course I'd like to convert other people, but it works about as well as telling people you've found an exciting new way to floss your teeth.

[rabidpotatochip]

Most of us who hang around here are not 'typical' shavers. The Sensor/Mach III/Fusion or whatever seem to work well enough for the huge majority of guys. That's why Gillette and Schick make so much money. Those of us who have -- had -- constant irritation, bumps, razor burn, and were motivated enough, or lucky enough, to find a better way, are a minority.

The attraction of this type of shaving for me is that we've figured out how to turn what was, at best, a daily chore into something we look forward to each day. Of course I'd like to convert other people, but it works about as well as telling people you've found an exciting new way to floss your teeth.

If you come up with one, let me know.

[Wade253]

...I think the reason the Mach 3 and it's cousins take a lot of flak here is because so many people were unable to achieve satisfactory results with them and didn't realize there were other options available to them. When they finally did try those options it was a lifestyle-changing experience.

I respect that there are people that can get a good shave from cartridge razors, but in my case I could just as well rub sandpaper on my face. As for the jokes, everyone gets poked fun at; they've actually made up and named every kind of acquisition disorder here. Don't take it too seriously, and if you have, I'm really sorry for the comments I made regarding Mach 3s.

I started shaving around the same time cartridges were starting. I had the opposite experience...DEs came with cuts and razor burns. Cartridges were more forgiving for me and I really think that the reasons DEs were overcome was because more people thought like me. When I found this board, I discovered the technique and prep were probably the reasons I did not like DE. However, the same technique and prep made my M3 shaves much better even though I have always used brush and soap. I have been shaving with M3s for a long time and now I enjoy the DE also. My main problem has been: If I am getting great shaves with the M3, why then am I going through the cuts and razor burns of DE shaving again. But I have been improving with DE so that is not making me think of becoming what Joel referred to as a "blade chucker." Anyways, perhaps it is the same for those who had bad experiences with cartridges-- either because they used older types that had not advanced or were also guilty of using the wrong technique and prep. If it's not for you then its not for you. ymmv.

Repartee here is usually in good humor and I enjoy it. This is a good community. I have appreciated the advice and nice jestures such as Redbike donating a SS to me--I am so looking forward to shaving with it.

[JerimiahC]

I'd say a lot of the anti cartridge sentiment comes from the fact that many of the people who make their way to this board or this type of wet shaving is that they had terrible experiences with the M3 getting ingrowns and burn. I was lucky, I've never had ingrowns or terrible irritation, I found this site because I wanted a closer shave. No matter how hard I tried I could never get a close shave. I tried a DE and found it worked wonderfully for me. I hope that in the end this is a community of people just trying to enjoy life, in whatever form that may be.

Mason- From your posts and the musical discussion we had back when I first joined, I've always had a high opinion of you and how you conduct yourself. I hope I have never offended anyone on this board by forgetting the mission and razzing those whose choices differ from mine.

That was rather long winded, but it comes from the heart.

+1 on all this. I personally have had bad shaves ALL my life. I've tried the sensor and others including the Mach3. At the time it was better than the disposables that I tried, but still lots of ingrown hairs and razor burn was a given. I went to an electric and the razor burn was less, but the shave wasn't as good, especially after the blades started to wear. Then a few months ago I tried the Fusion, hoping that it would be better. I got a close shave, but always had razor burn...again...and cut myself bad near my lips a couple of times. I tried Prorazo that I found at a Shoppers Drugmart just out of curiosity one night. I had bought a black bowl of Wilkenson and a brush a few years before when I went on vacation because I didn't want to take the gel I was using, but I was never able to lather well with it. I pulled out the brush and tried it with the prorazo and I was amazed at the quality of the shave. There was considerably less razor burn...but it was still there. At that point I may have went back and tried to use a Mach 3, but I did some research and came across Mantic's videos. I was sold. I found this site and went and bought my first DE a 38C. I will never go back. I hate those razors and what they did to my face. I may at times joke about the M3's, but I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I've been mild with my jokes. I appologize if I've offended anyone. Again it's the product not the users and I hope that we can ALL keep that line there. The other reason that I wanted to switch is the expensive blades. I've made up for the difference in price of the blades with all my razors and soaps and creams, but I wouldn't change a thing. I love the 'zen' of it all. I actually look forward to shaving now, something that I hated....feared even. I now have a period of time to focus on something I find enjoyable and don't feel guilty about spending the time. Anyway, sorry for the novel. Just my $1.50.

[minstrel]

I just want to mention too that the shaving forums were probably started by people using DE and straight razors, and many, like myself, feel somewhat disgusted with the new Gillette "shaving systems" which cost a lot for something which is basically plastic with a couple of tiny pieces of metal, which don't even stay sharp very long and which are totally non-recyclable and will end up in a landfill somewhere. And even though Gillette claims their Fusion "system" is the "ultimate in shaving", we all know that a couple of years from now, they will launch another "system" which they will claim is THE ULTIMATE in shaving and it will cost even more, and so on, and so on.

However, I don't look down on people who use those cartridge razors, because I know they are convenient and can give good shaves. DE razors or straight razors aren't for everyone. I chose to go that route, but I still keep my Mach 3 and my old Schick (whateverthemodeliscalled) two blade cartridge razor in the cupboard because there may be times when those would do a better job than my other razors.

/Nicholas

[180gVinyl]

Started shaving over thirty years ago without any instruction

Went through

Electrics (aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
GII
Schick cartridge
Bic disposables
Contour
Sensor
Mach 3

Combined with Gillette Foamy etc

Life was miserable:

Spots, burn and ingrown hairs

About 2 1/2 years ago I started down the brush and cream route and found a massive improvement.

At the beginning of this year, I mastered a Superspeed sufficiently to regularly shave with a DE

My standard face shave is with a DE, the Mach3 only surfaces when I only have 5 minutes to shave

My head shave is a DE/Mach3 combo

If your shave is satisfactory with a twin blade or 3 blade cartridge then you will stick with it


The most negative thoughts that I have on "modern" shaving concern the obscene price of Fusion cartridges and the poor performance of canned foam and gels