Fed up with la grise

Krodor, I just got a nice edge from my la grise that was giving me trouble.

Humor me here, set the bevel on a different stone and then move to the la grise for finishing. Do not use slurry. No dilucot. I have a feeling that my stone is a slurry duller and yours may be too. For whatever reason, I think slurry from this stone is compromising the edge somehow.

Use moderate pressure and then ease up on it as you go. Ignore the whole undercutting on water thing. I think that's messing with you and lowering your confidence. Go by feel more than sight. I guarantee you that if you drop some soap on the stone in the middle of your water-only strokes you will see that the edge will undercut the solution. Rinse off and continue. FWIW, I only take undercutting into consideration during the slurry stage. I completely ignore it on water-only strokes.

Good luck bud.

which stone did you set bevel on? I ghave set bevel on 1k stone before and finished on coticule with just water and if i remeber rightly it was'nt a bad shave at all..

I've had soft Coticles flake like that. One thing that sets it off is lapping under very warm or hot water.
I sanded mine down with 400x, and then lacquered over them.
You can't pick the flakes out successfully - well, you can but then you just expose another flake.
They're like jig-sawed into place in a way.
I emailed Maurice when I had this issue, sent a few pix - he said it wasn't uncommon and that one of his own Cotis had the same thing going on.
He sealed his - can't remember what he said to use but I told him I used lacquer and he said it was fine.
I don't even know if I actually needed to seal it - but it did make me feel better.

I've had a few softies - including La Grosse Juane and La Grise.
They were slow, and fussy. But - I got really nice edges off them.
Finishing under running water allowed me to get the edge where I wanted it - helped alot... esp with the La Grise.
My Grise was so soft - lapping it was scary, slurry ran off the plate like I was killing the stone.

The other thing is the the edges from those stones were always very mellow - not crisp.
Sharp/Keen yes - but not crisp like I would get from a Verte or Les Lat Hybrid or even a hard Dressante.

Yeah, it slurries like a banshee while lapping.


GOOD NEWS! Bevel set a beater Torrey, dilucotted to very light slurry, then 150 very light pressure laps under full blast faucet on cold. Lots of areas of popped hairs on the edge pre stropping.

Nice

Krodor I was a bit shocked when I saw that picture of your Coticule, almost like shattered glass.
So I quickly examined mine, the first is my 6X2 that is very uniform.

The second is a small nr4 bout I have that kind of has the flaking but not half as bad.

Here's a closeup of the 6X2 uniform one

And of the suspect bout


I really don't know if this flaking/micro-cracking will have any negative effect but it's interesting nevertheless, maybe those flaking/cracking Coticules have been exposed to frost.
Also clearly visible in the pictures are those yellow/brown speckles that are so typical of a la grise Coticule. Would that have anything to do why they are so slow?
Sorry pictures are not the best, they are made with my cheap toy microscope.

Krodor said:

GOOD NEWS! Bevel set a beater Torrey, dilucotted to very light slurry, then 150 very light pressure laps under full blast faucet on cold. Lots of areas of popped hairs on the edge pre stropping.

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well, I did that particular bevel set quickly, so I knew most of the blade was good, but also knew that sections of it were not (hey, it was almost dinnertime). So, went back and set the bevel for real and tried the same thing to no avail. But hey! There was something there that first time yesterday, tasting HHT3 off the rock - hints of Mojo-majesty.

Will be hunting this wumpus again soon. I think I went too dilute this most recent time. One suggestion also made was to do the tap water thing, but tilt the rock so that the edge is always going into the flow: uphill both ways. Should keep the loosening garnet particles from piling up in front and dulling the edge. I like that idea, but will need to use the kitchen sink to have the room.

edit: I can see how people can get all Stockholm-Syndromed with their coti. If it takes effort to learn it, you don't wanna get rid of it once you do. It sucks you in and you either chuck it, or you go from Smeagol over to Gollum for it - my....precioussss....



Or, get the job done with "pico-paper" finishing with lapping films in 15-20 mins, but what fun is that?

You'll get there - it sounds like you're close.

I really like this thread since I'm in the same boat trying to figure out my La Grise.
I have a question on undercutting. I see some people use soapy water and some use just plain water. Will the soap in the water allow the edge to undercut better as the soap helps the break the surface tension of the water?

Yes, anything in the water will break the surface tension and allow the fluid to climb over the edge easier.

I have a fast LPB, and I get a shavable edge from it finishing under running water. Having said that, it is often a bit of a struggle to get that last 5% out of the stone, so now I don't bother trying. I do 95% of the honing on that stone, then the last 5% on a slow La Verte.

Don't get rid of it. Use it as an excuse to buy another.

Krodor said:

Yeah, it slurries like a banshee while lapping... then 150 very light pressure laps under full blast faucet on cold.

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So it sounds like, if your stone releases a ton of slurry, and finishing under a stream of water helps, that your stone is probably auto-slurrying a bit while you finish, and preventing you from truly finishing on "just water" unless you are washing that slurry away as you hone.

Drybonz said:

So it sounds like, if your stone releases a ton of slurry, and finishing under a stream of water helps, that your stone is probably auto-slurrying a bit while you finish, and preventing you from truly finishing on "just water" unless you are washing that slurry away as you hone.

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My thoughts exactly.

legion said:

Don't get rid of it. Use it as an excuse to buy another.

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My thoughts exactly <ahem>.

congrats

so I shaved with it this morning on the GD / La Grise combination, and I could tell it wasn't as keen as I was used to (had to push a bit more that usual), but 3-4 pass shave and mostly BBS with no irritation. Is that was it's supposed to feel like? I know no one ever claimed coticules would be the keenest edges out there, but it got the job done. Maybe that's the "mellow" folks talk about.

On that point, I have a BBW, and I decided that maybe I'll just continue the soft-rock trend and take that out for a spin (cue Barry Manilow, Air Supply, and Hall&Oates). I glassed the bevel on the GD, slurried it up, and went bevel set to HHT3 pre-strop on the one stone, though I've noticed that lately I've developed a tendency to not take care of the last 1/2" or so of the toe as best as I should...rest of it is good though. Superb post-strop. Point is, I'm making progress with soft stones. I'll always have my SB Arkie in the wings if I need some boosting from the hard-stone end of things.

The edge can feel 'dead' on the face. Like you could never cut yourself accidentally with it.

You shouldnt have to push the razor. The shave should be effortless.

Gamma said:

The edge can feel 'dead' on the face. Like you could never cut yourself accidentally with it.

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yup, ok, that was it then. it was weird. It would cut the whiskers just fine, but felt dull. Kinda creepy. With a screaming edge (films, well-done surgical black), it's just "crispy", like the lightest incorrect touch would slice your face off, but at least you know it's frikkin' sharp. This was also sharp, but felt like it would be forgiving if you made a mistake. Hard to explain.

Disburden said:

You shouldnt have to push the razor. The shave should be effortless.

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I'll be the first to admit it likely wasn't maxed out, but it's getting there.