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Old English pewter shaving bowl.

ChiefBroom

ChiefBroom

No tattoo mistakes!
This doesn't work any better than a bowl from IKEA, but I get a kick out of old stuff, and this appears to be pretty old -- maybe late 1700s or early 1800s. Don't know for sure, though. It's surprisingly soft; however, I wouldn't say fragile. I used it this morning and didn't observe any sign of leeching. Nonetheless, my guess is it has some lead content, so I wore a full hazmat suit. (Not really)

I'd like to find out what the touch marks on the bottom signify. Presumably it was made in London. There's a crown at the top with either the letter X or the Roman Numeral below it, followed by what looks to me like Britannia on the left and possibly a lion on the right. Anyone know anything about these things?

$PB140483.jpg

$PB140478.jpg

$PB140480.jpg
$PB140480c.jpg
 
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Rockminer

Rockminer

I really like old stuff like that. I will be interested in seeing if someone can tell us when and where it came from. Nice find
 
ChiefBroom

ChiefBroom

No tattoo mistakes!
Rockminer said:
I really like old stuff like that. I will be interested in seeing if someone can tell us when and where it came from. Nice find
Click to expand...

Thanks. It actually has what for me are perfect dimensions. Deep enough not to have lather climb over the sides, no so deep that I have to reach down into it and bang the sides. Curvature is just right, and the surface irregularities promote lather production without being rough or abrasive. It works great. Just not something to drop.
 
NickyBobby

NickyBobby

So, from what I can gather from some quick googling, you have the highest quality British pewter from roughly the late 17th Century.

The X with a crown on top denotes the quality of the pewter and the "LONDON" stamp denotes the age of the piece. Here are a few links:

http://www.jotty.co.uk/history/antique-pewter-understanding-pewter-marks/ "a more elaborate 'rose and crown' stamp (with the word London added from the late 17th Century - although this does not guarantee provenance). The rose and crown stamp was initially used for exported pewter but during the 18th Century the mark became more generally used."

http://www.ehow.com/how_7548356_identify-markings-antique-pewter.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_6933975_do-identify-british-pewter-marks_.html

http://www.pewterbank.com/html/mug___measure_marks.html

Really cool find! Wish I had more time to do more digging!
 
ChiefBroom

ChiefBroom

No tattoo mistakes!
NickyBobby said:
So, from what I can gather from some quick googling, you have the highest quality British pewter from roughly the late 17th Century.

The X with a crown on top denotes the quality of the pewter and the "LONDON" stamp denotes the age of the piece. Here are a few links: <snip>

Really cool find! Wish I had more time to do more digging!
Click to expand...

Thanks!!!! I poked around a little, but didn't find and of the sites you linked. Great information.
 
ChiefBroom

ChiefBroom

No tattoo mistakes!
I probably shouldn't be using this thing, but that's what I got it for. And English-made brushes really like it.
 
Sled Dog

Sled Dog

If that is indeed late 1600's pewter, you should take it to a museum or antique dealer and get that verified...you may not want to be using it for shaving
 
ChiefBroom

ChiefBroom

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konijntjesbroek said:
May still want to have it tested as the crowned X at different times also meant a ration of 10 parts tin to 1 part lead and was also often imitated on less scrupulous work per here:

http://www.fiskeandfreeman.com/Hallmarks.aspx
Click to expand...

Great resource. Thanks. I had seen reference to imitation and misapplication of marks, but nothing yet that showed examples I could clearly match to marks on my bowl. The Britannia (left) and "erased lion" (right) below are definitely the two marks under the "X" on mine.

$Britannia Hallmarks.jpg


Here's a link to the eBay listing for my bowl. I had a very nice exchange of messages with the Seller. The bowl wasn't cheap, but it fascinated me, and the Seller was willing to negotiate. Given its recent provenance, I doubt this bowl was an American-made imitation that found its way back to England, where it landed in the collection of the "late Lord Boston of Faversham who resided in Cumbria." On the other hand, if it's as old as it appears to be, why wouldn't it have commanded a higher price (i.e, one I wouldn't paid)?

The bowl's story remains a mystery.
 
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konijntjesbroek

konijntjesbroek

ChiefBroom said:
Great resource. Thanks. I had seen reference to imitation and misapplication of marks, but nothing yet that showed examples I could clearly match to marks on my bowl. The Britannia (left) and "erased lion" (right) below are definitely the two marks under the "X" on mine.

View attachment 286163


Here's a link to the eBay listing for my bowl. I had a very nice exchange of messages with the Seller. The bowl wasn't cheap, but it fascinated me, and the Seller was willing to negotiate. Given its recent provenance, I doubt this bowl was an American-made imitation that found its way back to England, where it landed in the collection of the "late Lord Boston of Faversham who resided in Cumbria." On the other hand, if it's as old as it appears to be, why wouldn't it have commanded a higher price (i.e, one I wouldn't paid)?

The bowl's story remains a mystery.
Click to expand...

In the immortal words of Lucas (empire records) 'Who knows where thoughts come from. They just appear.' Maybe the seller was a relative more interested in a piece finding a good home, maybe they have had the thing up for months and are just happy to be rid of it. But anyhow congrats on a cool find and may the auction faeries watch over you :)
 
oakeshott

oakeshott

Chief,
Like you I like old things and enjoy using them in my daily routine. That bowl is a great find and unless it has some historical significance (i.e. attached to or traceable to some notable figure in history), then I think you should use it. The world is full of old silver and pewter sitting on shelves, in cupboards and in museums or historic houses and I don't think the world would be a poorer place if your one bowl got worn a little more by your shaving ritual. It gives you happiness to use it, right?

That is a great find and I am filled with a low and perfectly disreputable envy.
oake
 
ChiefBroom

ChiefBroom

No tattoo mistakes!
oakeshott said:
Chief,
Like you I like old things and enjoy using them in my daily routine. That bowl is a great find and unless it has some historical significance (i.e. attached to or traceable to some notable figure in history), then I think you should use it. The world is full of old silver and pewter sitting on shelves, in cupboards and in museums or historic houses and I don't think the world would be a poorer place if your one bowl got worn a little more by your shaving ritual. It gives you happiness to use it, right?

That is a great find and I am filled with a low and perfectly disreputable envy.
oake
Click to expand...

What a nice post!

Those were pretty much my thoughts and sentiments when I bought it.

What old things do you use? Maybe we should spin off a thread on the topic, if there isn't already one out there.
 
ChiefBroom

ChiefBroom

No tattoo mistakes!
konijntjesbroek said:
In the immortal words of Lucas (empire records) 'Who knows where thoughts come from. They just appear.' Maybe the seller was a relative more interested in a piece finding a good home, maybe they have had the thing up for months and are just happy to be rid of it. But anyhow congrats on a cool find and may the auction faeries watch over you :)
Click to expand...

And thank you!
 
ChiefBroom

ChiefBroom

No tattoo mistakes!
I got a grin out of the Seller's follow-up response to my question regarding lead content: "Hi there personally i wouldnt worry about the lead content.. ive drunk out of pewter mugs for years and our old house used to have lead pipes to it .. alot of the old farm properties in england still have lead pipes.. and if your using it for shaving..it wouldnt hurt you anyway ."
 
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