A little stiffer brush...

[boboakalfb]

Ok everyone...

I am thinking that a new brush purchase may be in order.

I started out with an inexpensive Vulfix #2197 (Has been moved to travel detail). Moved onto an SR-208 which I really like, however would like to put another brush in rotation that is a little stiffer....something that will help with the exfoliation.

I jumped into the realm of wet shaving a year ago after suffering from ingrown hair problems...while that has drastically improved, the stiffer brush will only help that situation by helping the exfoliating process.

I am looking at something in the neighborhood of $100 or so. I know that there is alot of personal preference in the brush arena, and I use both soaps and creams.

I am interested in the new brush that Joel is working on, and I have also thought about getting a C & E Best Badger that would be perfect for my travel kit as well.

What are your thoughts?

[letterk]

I don't have the C&E brush, but just gave one to my father-in-law. I don't think you'll find it any stiffer.

I have a Vulfix and am looking for something stiffer as well (soaps and creams). Not looking for the exfoliation factor - just looking for something stiffer for the soaps. The B&B Brush may be an option once Joel gets to test the hair.

[jmhUT]

I've got a shavemac that sounds a lot like what you guys are looking for. The bristles are still soft but much firmer than my Vulfix. I get a nice scrubbing effect without any pricking. They can be had <= $100 depending on which size you prefer. Mine is the Silvertip L. I perfer smaller burshes so this is perfect for me. I am very pleased with it. I haven't tried a lot of brushes yet but after reading preferences and reviews on this and other forums I would consider the shavemac line to be vastly underrated. Everybody who has one seems to love it but they aren't made by an old-school British firm so it gets discounted IMO.
Cheers,
Jeff

[boboakalfb]

Is that a new Shavemac Jeff? I knew that the older hair was something that I was interested in but not sure about the new ones he is producing. I was also thinking about the Silvertip SRs that Charles is selling. A medium size brush is probably what I would be interested in...somewhere in the 23-26 range.

[guenron]

Is that a new Shavemac Jeff? I knew that the older hair was something that I was interested in but not sure about the new ones he is producing. I was also thinking about the Silvertip SRs that Charles is selling. A medium size brush is probably what I would be interested in...somewhere in the 23-26 range.

Boboakalfb]
You may wish to work your way through this thread to get the size, style, and pricing info. Here are reviews on a 28mm and an 18mm written by a FANTASTIC reviewer...

[boboakalfb]

It was indeed those reviews that got me so interested in those brushes...I think it would be wise to wait and see what happens with Joel's project before making any decision, but just wanted to see what people had to say.

Bob O.

[jmhUT]

Hi Bob, mine is one of the newer ones. My understanding is that the newer bristles are a bit softer than the old but I can't say for sure. I can say that the brush is firm enough for me and I love it.
Cheers,
Jeff

[Sam]

Bob: I have Shavemacs and love them. I think they are every bit as soft as Kent, but they are denser and as such, they do not splay flat. The 30mm knot of the XXL Shavemac is a decadent cream lather maker. It is a bit cumbersome for a soap unless you have a bigger container. It does not work well with my Tabac container, but that is ok. Given the density and size of the knot of the 30mm brush, it does not open up much when you lather up. The Kent BK8 I had was one great brush, but after a few months, when I went to lather up, it just sorta like parted down the middle and I was lathering with the bottom half of the bristle.

If anyone contacts the Kent rep, tell him they ought to do prototypes of a beefier, denser Kent BK line. I love the handle and the bristle is so soft, but it needs to have some backbone. Only drawback on some of the smaller Shavemacs, to me, is the lather tends to be on the outside of the brush and thus needs to get into the breech or bottom so it can meet up where the water is stored. On the 30mm knot, I have so much lather that 4 or 5 great passes are doable. With the 23mm knotted brush, which I sold, sometimes the 3rd pass was short on lubrication

Sam

[joel]

Is that a new Shavemac Jeff? I knew that the older hair was something that I was interested in but not sure about the new ones he is producing. I was also thinking about the Silvertip SRs that Charles is selling. A medium size brush is probably what I would be interested in...somewhere in the 23-26 range.

All of the new shavemacs I have tried have been very soft, and a far cry from "scrubby." Compared to a vulfix, or a kent, newer shavemacs have a lot more "spine" however compared to the shavemacs of yore, new simpson chubby supers, Plisson Euro Whites, etc - the new shavemacs are a far cry from "stiff" or "scrubby."

For $100 or less - you'll want to either step up and spend a bit more and get a simpson/plisson (I can help you find one reasonably priced at probably around $150) or step down and get the C&E best badger brush. The B&B forum brush is most certainly a potential option, yet it still an unknown, as I have not tried it, seen it or felt it. If you aren't in any major rush - I'd hold off and see what the B&B brush ends up looking like, and the qualities it exudes before pulling the pin - however the C&E's are inexpensive enough whereby you might be able to swing both

[Sam]

Joel: I know that there are several brushes by SImpsons, in the 23 to 26 mm range, that can be had for $150, such as the Chubby 2 in best, but is there a Plisson Euro White around 24mm that can be had for that?

Sam

[joel]

Joel: I know that there are several brushes by SImpsons, in the 23 to 26 mm range, that can be had for $150, such as the Chubby 2 in best, but is there a Plisson Euro White around 24mm that can be had for that?

Sam

Sam,
I don't know mm knot sizes as they seem pretty worthless with Plisson. Basically the 12 is the magic size for Plisson's in my opinion. I currently have a 12 and a 16, and I have had a 14 and 18 and without question the 12's are the best bang for the buck, and the other larger sizes just plumb don't work as well as the 12 - and the 12 is more than large enough for any reasonable shaver.

To answer your question - yes you can get a Plisson Euro White for around $150, really though - they are a brush specifically designed (talk to Plisson and they will confirm) for hard soaps. They will work fine with creams, but a Simpson is a HELL of a lot more versitile/tractable, and is much better with creams than a Plisson. Also - Plissons regardless of cost/model all feel as though they are low quality and I rarely recommend them. Basically 1-2 guys on SMF have talked them up something big - and the brushes have this mysterious allure because they are a pain in the ass to buy, and the high end models are wickedly expensive. Bottom line - they are NOT rare in this country because they are special, or rare in general (they are VERY common in Europe) they are rare in the U.S. because they are overpriced and not all that wonderful. If they were better, or even as good as say a Simpson/Rooney etc - trust me... they'd be a lot more common and QED, Classicshaving, Lee - etc would stock 'em.

Every high end Plisson I have owned and used, or looked at in a store has had gorgeous looking badger hair, and been a "pretty" looking brush overall - but the SECOND you pick it up, you are shocked.... they are cheap handled (even the $400+ horn versions) hollow, and feel like a toy. The "walnut burl" is plastic... hollow plastic.... think - the feeling of a wiffle ball.

I assure you..... of all people - you will not be satisfied and will not accept (or feel good about your purchase) the quality of the Plisson handle. Stick with a Simpson - and get the Chubby 2 you threatened to buy months ago.

[Sam]

I just picked up on Plisson as that was the $150 brush referred to. I am seriously considering the Super Rooney, style 1, medium or small. I mean densely packed, it should be a good little brush and not as floppy as the Shavemac 23mm. I recall the Super small was around $99 so not that much more. In my experience, the larger the Shavemac brush, the better the effect of the shape of the brush. I find that the 30mm knot opens up the least and the 23mm the most and SMF1 is somewhere in between.

I guess our SMF1 was the later grade of hair. I bet that first bunch might have been the perfect marriage of hair like Simpson with value of Shavemac. Not that the new stuff is not great - I mean, I doubt Bernd would have changed hairs if not for customer demand. That is what I like about Shavemac, they seem to be driven by us, and not the other way around - we are "x" company and you will buy what we sell or do without. I really would love a beefed up Kent Bk8. That handle was a great shape and size for me and the hair was so soft but heck, it needed backbone

Sam

[Nitrox]

Sam, get that Chubby like Joel said and I've been saying. The Rooney in medium super would be a good brush too but if you want that backbone like you say, get the Chubby. I do have the Rooney but in Genuine Silvertip and it is not as firm as the Chubby 2.

[joel]

I just picked up on Plisson as that was the $150 brush referred to. I am seriously considering the Super Rooney, style 1, medium or small. I mean densely packed, it should be a good little brush and not as floppy as the Shavemac 23mm. I recall the Super small was around $99 so not that much more. In my experience, the larger the Shavemac brush, the better the effect of the shape of the brush. I find that the 30mm knot opens up the least and the 23mm the most and SMF1 is somewhere in between.

I guess our SMF1 was the later grade of hair. I bet that first bunch might have been the perfect marriage of hair like Simpson with value of Shavemac. Not that the new stuff is not great - I mean, I doubt Bernd would have changed hairs if not for customer demand. That is what I like about Shavemac, they seem to be driven by us, and not the other way around - we are "x" company and you will buy what we sell or do without. I really would love a beefed up Kent Bk8. That handle was a great shape and size for me and the hair was so soft but heck, it needed backbone

Sam

Sam,
Seriously my friend... you know I love you like a brother.... but one last time.... get the chubby 2. A rooney is built poorly, they aren't all that dense (I have owned 5, currently own 2 and I have examined 3 others) and they are not a beefed up BK8. Get a Chubby 2 in super if you want a scrub monster, and a Chubby 2 best - or better yet, and more reasonably priced a Duke 3 in best (and the duke has a better handle).

Seriously.... you've wasted hundreds of hours "thinking" about what brush to buy, calling retailers, sending countless pm's, emails, posts, etc.... as a lawyer your time is very valuable and quite expensive.... buy one, two, or three brushes, try it, take a small loss and sell it if you don't like it - and move on.

[Nitrox]

Sam, Joel is 100% right. You have spent lots of time pondering this decision and I have been telling you, like a brother as well, to get the Chubby 2. I wouldn't give my brother bad advice and I certainly wouldn't give it to you, you can not go wrong with the Chubby. Trust me good buddy.





Now get on the phone and call Lee, you can have it by Friday.

[Sam]

I will be getting a Chubby 2 later in the week. Deciding between Best and Super.

The posts on Rooney and Plisson are maybe a soap brush only. The 30mm shavemac is a cream only brush - it is decadent. I found the smaller Shavemac not too good with creams. Seems to me the bigger the Shavemac knot, the less it splays.

A Rooney Super 22mm knot brush is $75 - and seemed like a bargain until Joel's last post. A size 12 Plisson in Euro White would seem to be around $150.

I might consider a Duke 3, but there is so much support for the Chubby 2 I went with that - and it is a bit denser.

I had a bad experience with a PJ1 in best - it was too small for even soaps for me. I mean it worked but it was a prickly son of a gun and could not lather creams at all. That is probably why I did not consider a PJ3 in super

Sam

[joel]

I will be getting a Chubby 2 later in the week. Deciding between Best and Super.

The posts on Rooney and Plisson are maybe a soap brush only. The 30mm shavemac is a cream only brush - it is decadent. I found the smaller Shavemac not too good with creams. Seems to me the bigger the Shavemac knot, the less it splays.

A Rooney Super 22mm knot brush is $75 - and seemed like a bargain until Joel's last post. A size 12 Plisson in Euro White would seem to be around $150.

I might consider a Duke 3, but there is so much support for the Chubby 2 I went with that - and it is a bit denser.

I had a bad experience with a PJ1 in best - it was too small for even soaps for me. I mean it worked but it was a prickly son of a gun and could not lather creams at all. That is probably why I did not consider a PJ3 in super

Sam

Sam,
Flip a coin. I don't have a chubby 2 in best - but I have a chubby 2 in super and I have a duke 3 in best, and let me tell you - there is a WORLD of difference between the best and super hair. The Duke is soft - dense, somewhat firm - but soft and the bristles readily splay. The Chubby 2 is VERY stiff, does not splay much, and is not rought at the tip, but I surely wouldn't call it soft. it provides an intense scrubbing action - where as the Duke 3 in best is much softer, and more tame. I would say the Duke 3 acts like a beefed up BK8 (albeit has a terrible handle) - where as the Chubby 2 super cannot be reasonably compared with a BK8 in the slightest, as it is truly night and day - it is not even remotely similar to the BK8.

Get the Chubby 2 in best as it is less expensive, and if you want something much stiffer than the CH2 Best, you know the CH2 super is your best bet.

No more thinking - drop the hammer on this bad boy

I am gonna be a real jerk here though.... I still think a PJ2/3 in super would be a hell of a lot better brush for you, as the EXACT way I would describe the PJ2/3 is a BK8 with a BETTER handle, and beefed up bristles.

[mrob]

I had a bad experience with a PJ1 in best - it was too small for even soaps for me. I mean it worked but it was a prickly son of a gun and could not lather creams at all. That is probably why I did not consider a PJ3 in super

Sam

Sam,

I don't know you, but have been reading these posts for what seems like months, and feel your pain. I twisted in the wind for weeks agonizing over what brush to pull the trigger on--my sympathies.

Now, if you are hesitating on a PJ3 Super because of a bad experience with a PJ1 in best because it was too small and prickly, rest assured that the PJ3 Super is neither a. small, or b. prickly. If you want a firm yet soft and luxurious brush, get the PJ3--you'll never regret it, and if by some stretch of the imagination you don't love it, you'll be able to sell it in a heartbeat!

Good luck!

[Rik]

Sam,

I'll make you an offer you can't refuse. Give Lee a call and order the PJ3 Super. If you don't love it, I'll buy it from you (for Lee's price minus shipping to both you and me), guaranteed, sight unseen, no questions asked.

[Nitrox]

I have the PJ2 in Super as well and me and Sam have been through the comparisons. I think for Sam the right brush for him is the Chubby 2 in best. I do love the PJ2 but Sam is looking for something a little stiffer and the Chubby fits the bill.