Jnat - 5+

[paco664]

Kesuji

what is kesuji? *(forgive me if i have asked this before... but your knowledge of jnats is far beyond most peoples..)

[Gamma]

The non-toxic lines are called kesuji.

[Kentos]

Hair lines

[paco664]

what are the made of????

are they good/bad/indifferent??

[Gamma]

They're like mineral deposits or veins. Only non-toxic lines are called Kesuji, they don't hurt the steel.

good or bad depends on how invasive the line is...

[paco664]

They're like mineral deposits or veins. Only non-toxic lines are called Kesuji, they don't hurt the steel.

good or bad depends on how invasive the line is...

i don't know about the invasive... but they were slightly insulting and demeaning...

[BakerAndBadger]

Kesuji

Bless you, here take my hankerchief.

[maxim207]

i totally agree here, but but ..
you will be surprised how many people will try to go from 6k stone to super hard Jnat and expect super nice shave without take any time to learn the stone. It is like jump from 1k to 30k shapton
Even some guys will take razor without bevel is set and expect 5+ stone will give them magic.
Thats why i decided to from now on i will put that listing on all hard stones.
The harder the stone the more difficult it is to use !

In my opinion I don't see the value in learning on anything other than the stone you hope to wind up using. It may take you longer to "learn" the stone, but you're still learning one stone instead of two.

[mainaman]

i dunno why it looks green... its white and grey with manganese lines.... and a tiny sexy little touch of yellow
in a couple spots...

I am pretty sure there is no Manganese in Jnats, they have entirely different origin than coticules.

[professorchaos]

Naturally a vendor would want you to buy multiple hones.

Very hard Japanese naturals can be tricky to learn. Really, all it takes is patience.

[mainaman]

Naturally a vendor would want you to buy multiple hones.

Very hard Japanese naturals can be tricky to learn. Really, all it takes is patience.

Some people have no idea what they are doing and like to blame the tool as they are obviously never wrong.
I don't think one has to buy the hardest stone there is to get a great edge, only those that want to push to the extreme would do that.
Absolutely agree with the patience argument, unfortunately many people are "right here and right now" types and that is part of the problem.

[paco664]

I am pretty sure there is no Manganese in Jnats, they have entirely different origin than coticules.

they lines look "orangish gold" and are super shiney with refracted light....

i dunno what they are but they sure make for one pretty stone....

and this latest jnat i got from 330mate i really hit a honerun with it....

[BakerAndBadger]

i really hit a honerun with it....

Oooh, I see what you did there!

[mainaman]

they lines look "orangish gold" and are super shiney with refracted light....

i dunno what they are but they sure make for one pretty stone....

and this latest jnat i got from 330mate i really hit a honerun with it....

glad that you found a good stone from 330mate, they have horrible reputation otherwise.

[davew]

I've gotten..hmm...four stones from fujibato (330mate). Best thing to do when buying stones from him is don't consider that you're going to buy a very hard 70x180mm stone for $35. I never did that, but I did buy a $10 tanba aoto from him that was basically a smaller version of the blue stone sold by many people for $80. It is the same, considering the price, it is plenty big enough for razors but i would never use a tanba aoto on a razor if a better stone was available.

I also figure with fujibato, you might as well assume that what you buy from him will be yours whether you like it or not. I've noticed posts from other people describing correspondence when he got really angry when someone tried to return a cheap stone.

if you're going for once and done, alex or so would be my go to. I don't know who else has vintage stones, and I like the vintage stones better. Be it japanese stones or arks, the vintage rocks have always been just a touch better to me, both in finish and feel.

If you just want to play with a few rocks, fujibato is fine. I got from him the hardest nakayama stone I have ever seen anywhere, and it's clearly capable of finishing a razor and excellent with slurry. It was about $110 and it is just short of 70x200mm and 25mm thick. I couldn't get a stone that cheap and that good anywhere else, but I took my chances. One side is cut even and the opposite side is not, thus the lower price. But it is so hard that it will never go out of flat.

Fujibato sells so many stones, some cheap ones, some good ones, that there's going to be a lot of negative feedback just by volume. That doesn't mean:
* that he doesn't sell some good stones
* that while he may sell some good stones, it doesn't mean that he's the best place to go, especially for a newbie who doesn't understand the differences in stones, and how foolish the notion is that a miner will give away a pearl for the cost of a grain of sand

I'd call fujibato's stones "modern" stones, at least in feel to me, and the new shoubu and ozuku stones are the same way, they are very hard and cold, and the vintage stones I have used just don't have that feeling.

In the arks, the vintage (really vintage, not 30 years old, but like 100+ years old) stones seem to be stronger cutters while still providing an edge just as fine or finer vs. the new fine stones, even after the new ones are also broken in.

[paco664]

actually he really doesn't have a lot of negative reports if you look at the TOTAL of all he sells....

i personally have purchased 2 jnats from him that were supposed to be lvl5++..... both of the stones are excellent finishers..... i paid 90$ for one and 100$ for the other.....

the first one is a grey and now has a mirror like reflective surface... it works great with slurry and with plain water and the edges are like butter...

the second is the one i posted above.... it has not taken the mirror shine yet *(lapped to 1500w/d).... it darkens the slurry fairly fast but when you wash of the stone and use water it shines the bevel like crazy.... the edges are wicked sharp....

i don't think i would part with either stone for double what i paid...

the first stone...

[jeness]

You never know what you would have gotten if you would have bought a nice stone for that price from someone who has zero negative transactions. Maybe the shaves would have been better, maybe worse, who knows. But basically, you don't have stones to compare the ones you bought from 330mate, so you will never know until you try :)

[davew]

Paco might not, but I do.

[paco664]

You never know what you would have gotten if you would have bought a nice stone for that price from someone who has zero negative transactions. Maybe the shaves would have been better, maybe worse, who knows. But basically, you don't have stones to compare the ones you bought from 330mate, so you will never know until you try :)

maybe not... i have a razor that Al *(doc226) honed for me using a jnat progression... his edge is very sharp and buttery... very comfy to shave with...


just like mine...

[SliceOfLife]

330mate has the same concerns maxim pointed to above. (People blaming the stone or seller when they buy a stone they don't know how to use).

The worst anti 330mate thread I've ever seen was a knife forum actually. It was some guy who had bought 2 or 3 hones from him and was ranting and raving about how they were useless rocks. One couldn't even cut steel, etc etc, etc.

Then about 20 guys came in and one asked him his experience. He had none. They all basically replied... "Yeah... ummm... yeah." Thread still went on for pages of this guy ranting and raving about how 330mate is the antichrist or whatever he was on about, while other guys tried to explain to him that maybe he was the one at fault.

You can't buy a random 330mate "razor" stone for $25 and expect you'll get the same stone you'd get paying $90-300 or more for from someone who tests each and every stone and can tell you "I've used this stone to finish razors, it's a good razor stone." If you get a handpicked or individually listed stone, then I don't know his level of experience determining what would be a good razor stone, he's a miner from what I've heard, so I'm guessing he just asked someone what stones would be suitable and looks for those. I doubt he tests stones with razors the way some other sellers do. Does that translate to less of a guarantee that you'll get a good stone for razor use from him? I think it does. But if we're going to dismiss the people who get good razor stones from him as incapable of making that judgement, then it's apparent what our judgement of these stones are, regardless of facts.