Defective? Has anyone ever seen this before?

**marbs34** · 08-19-2012, 04:07 PM

I truely don't want this to be argumentative. I started with the 34, when I first received the 89 I noted just how much of an improvement the plating seemed to be. After 6 months or so I noticed the plating coming off on the threaded post of the head. The from there and a few cleanings over the course of a year it has degraded what I have shown you today. If the Fatip last a year or less then my next purchase my be an SS model. The only one of the selling points of these razors is the durability. If longevity can't overcome initial purchase costs then you start to eliminate a lot of the practical useablity. I'm not giving up on DE's, I just believe I might have gotten a slightly defective EJ and made the problem worse with my aggressive cleaning habits. Time will tell.

I am getting tired of going over my posts with this tablet. Tablets are miserable devices for accurately conveying thoughts in the English language.

The above post is poorly written because I was wrote it using a tablet.

**BBrad** · 08-19-2012, 04:28 PM

Physical wear to the plating as a result of friction in the threads leads to corrosion of the underlying zinc alloy pot metal. Soaking in acid accelerates the corrosion process. Once metal is corroded, the rough surface area exposed leads to more corrosion and deterioration.

Sadly, today's "modern" razors aren't going to stand the test of time that vintage razors have . . .

**marbs34** · 08-19-2012, 05:07 PM

One of the reasons I was interested in the Fatip was its underlying brass construction. At least brass won't melt when soaked in vinegar like the pott metal of the EJ did.

**sychodelix** · 08-19-2012, 05:29 PM

Yuma? Heh, that's where I moved from. Yeah, the water is really awful there. I'd get a scuttle and use bottled water or distilled.

**Arcadies** · 08-19-2012, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by marbs34

One of the reasons I was interested in the Fatip was its underlying brass construction. At least brass won't melt when soaked in vinegar like the pott metal of the EJ did.

+1

I too love this about the Fatips. Like I said before, their plating can be a bit rough but the underlying metal is solid brass like the old Gillette's and they can be re-plated if desired, it's hard to find a plater that will work with Zamak/Pot Metal. I am currently having a Fatip replated in bright nickel, the original plating was so-so, but I love shaving with it so much I really wanted to shine it up. Good luck with yours and I hope you enjoy shaving with it!

**ERVARGASNY** · 08-19-2012, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by cb91710

Vinegar IS an acid.

Normal stomach acid has a Ph of 1.5 to 3.5
Cider vinegar is 4.25 to 5.0 undiluted
Ph of 6-7 is neutral.

Baking soda can neutralize the acid in your stomach, and it is not a particularly strong alkaline.
Drain opener has a Ph of 14... very strong alkaline and will neutralize any acid.

Vinegar is not particularly strong on the Ph scale, but it is strong enough to cause serious damage to metal if allowed to soak too long.
Coca Cola and other soft drinks are more acidic than vinegar.

. Yes your right, I should of clarified which vinegar nutralizes Acid in your Stomach, and that is Apple Cider Vinager, i use it to control my Acid Reflux :o) thank god that remedy has helped Alot. 2 teaspons of Apple Cider vinegar with 8.oz of water, then Zip slowly dont gulp.

**AABCDS** · 08-19-2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by ERVARGASNY

. Yes your right, I should of clarified which vinegar nutralizes Acid in your Stomach, and that is Apple Cider Vinager, i use it to control my Acid Reflux :o) thank god that remedy has helped Alot. 2 teaspons of Apple Cider vinegar with 8.oz of water, then Zip slowly dont gulp.

Isn't apple cider vinegar still acidic?

**cb91710** · 08-19-2012, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by ERVARGASNY

. Yes your right, I should of clarified which vinegar nutralizes Acid in your Stomach, and that is Apple Cider Vinager, i use it to control my Acid Reflux :o) thank god that remedy has helped Alot. 2 teaspons of Apple Cider vinegar with 8.oz of water, then Zip slowly dont gulp.

I use a tablespoon of baking soda... but it's not a preemptive strike, it's always the counterattack when I wake up in the middle of the night with an unpleasant taste.
Thankfully, it is a very rare occurrence, and apparently avoidable by not eating or drinking for an hour or two before bed.

**cb91710** · 08-19-2012, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by AABCDS

Isn't apple cider vinegar still acidic?

It is, but at a Ph of 3.5 to 5.0, it is more neutral than gastric acid which is 1.5 to 3.5, and doesn't produce the CO2 that gulping a mouthful of baking soda does.

**woodfluter** · 08-19-2012, 11:57 PM

Aaah...a forum devoted to razors and gastric healthcare!

All vinegar is acidic of course, but as noted it's less so than normal stomach acid. Coke has a pH of about 2.5, but it won't dissolve a nail unless you are monumentally patient - check Snopes.

Apple cider vinegar may reduce GERD by different mechanisms, depending on whether the stomach acid is abnormally low (can help lower it to the right range) or too high. Complicated mechanism apparently involving the range of acidity needed to trigger closure of the lower esophageal valve.

But we digress. Too many of these accounts of deterioration of plated Zamak alloys to dismiss them as statistical flukes. You could soak a vintage brass razor in straight vinegar for a week and it might be bad for any lacquer over gold plate, but won't damage the metal. And in many of these stories there was threaded post failure or plating loss without aggressive cleaning.

I understand the additional cost over cast zinc alloy, but these razors aren't cheap. And razors are made from stainless steel, a much more difficult material to work with. You'd think there would be a place for modern brass razors. Just sayin' ...

**dcobranchi** · 08-20-2012, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by ERVARGASNY

Vinagar is so strong that it can nutralize the Acid in your Stomach, Bad choice to use Vinagar For metal, concrete or plastic. Good for cleaning glass, or greased coated cabinets from frying and other stains, but thats about it. Ohh and for cooking as well LOL.

Sorry to see that happend to your EJ89, i love those 89's :o)

Sorry. I'm a chemist IRL and have to beat this one down. As acids go, CH3COOH (acetic acid) is relatively weak (compared to the inorganic acids). Stomach acid is mostly HCl, a considerably stronger acid than acetic.

But the main point stands, ANY acid is bad for your razors.

**ERVARGASNY** · 08-20-2012, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by AABCDS

Isn't apple cider vinegar still acidic?

Yes it is. It works because the Acid in your stomach has a lower level of acids then the Apple Cider Vinegar, there for it nuetralizes the acid in your stomach, sounds strange but it works for millions who have tried it.

The brand to get is called "Bragg" its apple cider vinegar is in its natural state.

**ERVARGASNY** · 08-20-2012, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by cb91710

I use a tablespoon of baking soda... but it's not a preemptive strike, it's always the counterattack when I wake up in the middle of the night with an unpleasant taste.
Thankfully, it is a very rare occurrence, and apparently avoidable by not eating or drinking for an hour or two before bed.

Yes i know the feeling, that is horrible. I dont eat 3 hours befor bedtime just to avoid having a rude awakening.

Sorry to OP for getting of topic here.

**marbs34** · 08-20-2012, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by ERVARGASNY

Yes i know the feeling, that is horrible. I dont eat 3 hours befor bedtime just to avoid having a rude awakening.

Sorry to OP for getting of topic here.

The original issue has been resolved. The rest has been a learning experience and I have enjoyed it.

**retturn2blades** · 08-20-2012, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by marbs34

I look forward to every chance I have to spend the night in San Diego, because I feel clean after taking showers there. It would surprise anyone who has never experienced it just how "hard" the water is here in Yuma, AZ

Thanks to everyone how chimed in with suggestions. I just ordered a Fatip Grande in chrome. Since the top piece and the handle are still good from the EJ I can possibly do some "customizing" if the Fatip isn't perfect as is.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought San Diego and Arizona both tap off water from the Colorado River.

**retturn2blades** · 08-20-2012, 08:53 AM

FWIW, I've noticed underneath my R41 top plate there is some browning around the studs that go through the bottom plate.

**retturn2blades** · 08-20-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by cb91710

I use a tablespoon of baking soda... but it's not a preemptive strike, it's always the counterattack when I wake up in the middle of the night with an unpleasant taste.
Thankfully, it is a very rare occurrence, and apparently avoidable by not eating or drinking for an hour or two before bed.

+1 for baking soda. Great cure for acid indigestion.

**shanman** · 08-20-2012, 09:14 AM

Anyway, I would bet money the OP kept the razor on a stand "head up", with left a nice little pool of acetic acid in the thread chamber chewing away on the threaded stud plating and ultimately the base metal.

**bakerbarber** · 08-20-2012, 10:26 AM

ZAMACK AHHHHHHHH!!!!

I buy vinegar in bulk at work and 200 grain is pretty tough stuff. Even 120 grain is crazy strong.

Once a guy brought a salad for lunch and forgot dressing. Someone suggested he use a splash of oil and vinegar from the ingredient room. The soybean oil was ok, but the splash of 120 grain vinegar he mixed it with wasn't. One bite of his salad took his breath away and he had to throw it in the garbage.

We store our vinegar away from any stainless steel equipment because it can corrode it. I've heard stories of it eating the grout out between tiles.

Vinegar sold at grocery stores is very diluted in comparison.

I think anything wiped on those threads after the plating was damaged would dissolve the zamack though. It is a shame to have to replace something after only a year and a half.

Is the handle still usable? Did the threading inside the handle get damaged? Hopefully not and you can keep it as a spare.

Acetic acid

Vinegar is a dilute solution of acetic acid. Strength (or
concentration) of vinegar is measured in “grains.” One
grain is equal to one-tenth of one percent of acetic acid.
The vinegar found at the grocery store is a 50-grain
vinegar. A 100-grain vinegar is 10% acetic acid, and a
200-grain vinegar is 20% acetic acid.

**marbs34** · 08-20-2012, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by retturn2blades

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought San Diego and Arizona both tap off water from the Colorado River.

Correct, southern California receives most of its water and electricity from the Colorado river (Hoover Dam)

It is without a doubt though that the water that is piped to California is treated for minerals prior to coming into your home while the water in Arizona is only treated for bacteria and pathogens.

I also have never bought a razor stand as I can't come to spend the money on one. I dry my razor on the counter after a shake and a wipe on end.