Crystal Israeli in plain white wrapper? Are these fakes?

**TheBigL** · 08-24-2012, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by CyclingCraig

Ohhh great! I just received my WCS Order that had my 100 pack of crystals. Opened the box. The blades I received came in black packaging that said "crystal". Opened the pack and took out a blade.... Plain white wrapper and the blade itself is blank, no printing at all on either side!!

I am surprised since they came from WCS. The original sample pack I received from them had the one with the white wrapper with blue writing just like pictured above!

What is going on!!!

Does it say Stainless Steel or Platinum Chrome on the front of the box?

Afterthought: Is the packaging from WCS as pictured on their website?

**CyclingCraig** · 08-25-2012, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by TheBigL

Does it say Stainless Steel or Platinum Chrome on the front of the box?

Afterthought: Is the packaging from WCS as pictured on their website?

Says "Platinum Chrome"

**CyclingCraig** · 08-25-2012, 06:31 PM

This is how mine look:

**TheBigL** · 08-25-2012, 06:42 PM

Here's a listing for some stainless steel ones

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-CRYSTAL-I...14%26rk%3D3%26

**Gecoble** · 08-25-2012, 09:43 PM

Does anyone have an idea why ASR would not label the razor or the wrapper? It seems very odd. I cannot think of another blade without branding. Anyway, I am sticking with those with the proper labeling. Or at least until ASR stops asking them

**El Judio Bravo** · 08-26-2012, 07:07 AM

Moichandising!

No printing means they can package the product any old way they like. Look at the generic brands in US outlets. Mostly US Personna. And what a price range! OMG!

**jwilock** · 08-26-2012, 09:25 AM

This is pretty confusing. DO they have Crystal blades that have writing on them, and some that have no writing? Some in blue wrappers, some in white wrappers with writing, and some in plain white paper? How can they be the same blade? Maybe "Crystal" is just a name they feel free to put on different blades they make? Then there are the "Barber" type - which also come in plain white paper with no writing on the blades. Is it possible those are the same blade as these Crystals in plain white paper and no writing? The "true Crystals" are supposed to be made in Israel as "Crystal" was supposed to be an alternate name for the IPs (Israeli Personnas). But ASR makes blades in the US too. Meds and Labs and some "generic" Personnas come from that plant. Is it possible these plain paper, no writing Personnas actually come from the US plant and are not made in Israel? Anyone know the story here?

**El Judio Bravo** · 08-26-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by jwilock

This is pretty confusing. DO they have Crystal blades that have writing on them, and some that have no writing? Some in blue wrappers, some in white wrappers with writing, and some in plain white paper? How can they be the same blade? Maybe "Crystal" is just a name they feel free to put on different blades they make? Then there are the "Barber" type - which also come in plain white paper with no writing on the blades. Is it possible those are the same blade as these Crystals in plain white paper and no writing? The "true Crystals" are supposed to be made in Israel as "Crystal" was supposed to be an alternate name for the IPs (Israeli Personnas). But ASR makes blades in the US too. Meds and Labs and some "generic" Personnas come from that plant. Is it possible these plain paper, no writing Personnas actually come from the US plant and are not made in Israel? Anyone know the story here?

... but I don't believe that, for example, Lord/Sotraco makes as many brands of blades as they sell. Likewise, ASR in the USA. Three different grinds, maybe, then how they coat them is what makes the "difference", IMO.

I understand that there was some consolidation done by ASR in Israel. All their brands, it's said, are now manufactured under one roof. There are three types made there. One is what we call "Israeli Personna" or "Israeli Reds". These are currently being imported in bulk to Mexico where they are packaged for export to the North and South American markets.

The next type? They are sold in the USA as "Crystal" brand; also as "Novarro". When sold in cardboard cartons by the hundred they are known as "Israeli Blue Personna" and often, as "Israeli Blues". These are all the same blade; the packaging has changed. An order of 100 I got was not in cardboard but in loose plastic tucks of five. The printing on all these has varied a bit over time but they seem to be the same blade as always.

Finally, the third type I know of is also a different grind and are exported to Europe. In the UK, the Tesco chain sells them as the "house" brand. The identical blade is packaged for Hema and sold in the Netherlands and Belgium. (And other countries as well? I don't know where else Hema does business.)

That's the story as I know it.

**jwilock** · 08-26-2012, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by El Judio Bravo

... but I don't believe that, for example, Lord/Sotraco makes as many brands of blades as they sell. Likewise, ASR in the USA. Three different grinds, maybe, then how they coat them is what makes the "difference", IMO.

I understand that there was some consolidation done by ASR in Israel. All their brands, it's said, are now manufactured under one roof. There are three types made there. One is what we call "Israeli Personna" or "Israeli Reds". These are currently being imported in bulk to Mexico where they are packaged for export to the North and South American markets.

The next type? They are sold in the USA as "Crystal" brand; also as "Novarro". When sold in cardboard cartons by the hundred they are known as "Israeli Blue Personna" and often, as "Israeli Blues". These are all the same blade; the packaging has changed. An order of 100 I got was not in cardboard but in loose plastic tucks of five. The printing on all these has varied a bit over time but they seem to be the same blade as always.

Finally, the third type I know of is also a different grind and are exported to Europe. In the UK, the Tesco chain sells them as the "house" brand. The identical blade is packaged for Hema and sold in the Netherlands and Belgium. (And other countries as well? I don't know where else Hema does business.)

That's the story as I know it.

Per the information posted elsewhere in this site, and which I've used as my guide, this post is not correct. Here is what has been previously defined as the definitive guide to Israeli Personnas:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...Made-DE-Blades

Israeli Personnas, aka IP's, are the same as Crystal. IP's are not the ones that come in red packaging. Those are referred to as either "Reds" or "Red Personnas" (aka RP's). As you and the Guide both point out there is a third variety that come with no writing on the blade. So the poster who had blades in plain white paper but with writing on them likely bought Crytals (IP's). The poster who bought blades in plain white paper with no writing on them likely did not buy Crystals ... at least as those terms are described in the Guide and usually used on this forum

**El Judio Bravo** · 08-26-2012, 04:23 PM

Lord grinds out 3 blades and then uses many packages to sell them. A shell game? Or just different from market-to-market? That's my opinion, anyway.

Crystal/Novarro/Israeli Blue are the same blade. These days you will see them in different wrappers or packages. The printing on the blades may vary but generally look similar to each other. Unprinted blades are something I have yet to come across but it's easier for the manufacturer, no? They can package them any which way they like.

Israeli Red blades are clearly a different grind. Many across the boards will prefer one over the other but agree that these are, in fact, distinct from the blue mess above. I like Blues and find Reds "harsh" on my skin.

Tesco/Hema are a 3rd grind of Israeli-made blade and not sold outside of Europe.

Did I answer you? If not, ask again. I'm on disability; I've got time.

**El Judio Bravo** · 08-26-2012, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by jwilock

Per the information posted elsewhere in this site, and which I've used as my guide, this post is not correct. Here is what has been previously defined as the definitive guide to Israeli Personnas:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...Made-DE-Blades

Israeli Personnas, aka IP's, are the same as Crystal. IP's are not the ones that come in red packaging. Those are referred to as either "Reds" or "Red Personnas" (aka RP's). As you and the Guide both point out there is a third variety that come with no writing on the blade. So the poster who had blades in plain white paper but with writing on them likely bought Crytals (IP's). The poster who bought blades in plain white paper with no writing on them likely did not buy Crystals ... at least as those terms are described in the Guide and usually used on this forum

Ah, I don't think I ever heard "Israeli Personna" applied to Blues or Crystals. In fact, I took exception to the author saying that, but what the hell, I'm telling you my bit, not his. He confused me. And it's a big world, larger than my bathroom. ;-) The "Reds" are not sold under any brand except "Personna". OK?

**jwilock** · 08-26-2012, 08:00 PM

No biggie. I was just pointing out that when people on this forum say "IPs" they are almost always referring to the ones you called Blues or Israeli Blues (which are also sold as Crystals), not the "Reds"

**letterk** · 08-27-2012, 12:03 PM

I was asked to pop in and provide more information. The information I posted in the original guide was correct on that date. Since then, much has happened. I don't think anything shown here is fake. I have yet to see any fake Crystals. There are, however, a few different variations. Over the years, I've seen probably 5 or so changes in packaging. Some came happened right after another. Right now, if you order Crystal from ASR, you can get at least two different versions, depending on where they are made. We have a special way of ordering to ensure we receive the correct blades. But even with that, things are changing. Now that ASR is owned by Energizer, they have access to BIC processing trade secrets and all their manufacturing processes will be upgraded. So Crystals today may not be the same as Crystals tomorrow.

**TheBigL** · 08-27-2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by letterk

I was asked to pop in and provide more information. The information I posted in the original guide was correct on that date. Since then, much has happened. I don't think anything shown here is fake. I have yet to see any fake Crystals. There are, however, a few different variations. Over the years, I've seen probably 5 or so changes in packaging. Some came happened right after another. Right now, if you order Crystal from ASR, you can get at least two different versions, depending on where they are made. We have a special way of ordering to ensure we receive the correct blades. But even with that, things are changing. Now that ASR is owned by Energizer, they have access to BIC processing trade secrets and all their manufacturing processes will be upgraded. So Crystals today may not be the same as Crystals tomorrow.

I can believe it, especially with the "the new chromium nitride coating" advertised now, but do you mean Bic, as in lighters and pens and shavers?

**Gecoble** · 08-29-2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by TheBigL

I can believe it, especially with the "the new chromium nitride coating" advertised now, but do you mean Bic, as in lighters and pens and shavers?

Yup - Bic makes a lot of blades. They still have a big chunk of the disposable business in the US. Sad to hear they will take over some of ASR. I have not enjoyed their DE blades. I will keep purchasing the Crystals in the blue and white wrapper until they have fully crossed over to the Bic process.

Thanks for all the info. You would think that someone would have a wiki page on all the different blades / ownership / manufacturing facilities. This is mighty complex stuff. Sort of like the beer industry with all it's consolidation!

**El Judio Bravo** · 08-29-2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Gecoble

You would think that someone would have a wiki page on all the different blades / ownership / manufacturing facilities. This is mighty complex stuff. Sort of like the beer industry with all it's consolidation!

You could more easily buy the latest order-of-battle plans for NATO than find out the true story behind blade manufacturing.

**TheBigL** · 08-29-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gecoble

Yup - Bic makes a lot of blades. They still have a big chunk of the disposable business in the US. Sad to hear they will take over some of ASR. I have not enjoyed their DE blades. I will keep purchasing the Crystals in the blue and white wrapper until they have fully crossed over to the Bic process.

Thanks for all the info. You would think that someone would have a wiki page on all the different blades / ownership / manufacturing facilities. This is mighty complex stuff. Sort of like the beer industry with all it's consolidation!

I knew Energizer had Schick and Wilkinson Sword, but I thought Bic was its own company.

**CyclingCraig** · 08-30-2012, 05:54 AM

Just as a follow-up with my blades. (Plain white paper and blank blade pictured above).

Had my first shave this morning with one of them (Granted, I may not be the best judge of blades since I am only 9 months into DE shaving). But from what I can tell, this blade gave me a GREAT shave, equal to, if not better than the Crystals I received in my sample pack with the white paper and blue ink.

Might not have been as "Slick", but that could have been my prep/lather today? VERY close shave and almost no irritation or burn.

This 100 pack is going to last me a while and I am happy so far with them. And a $0.12 cents a blade, it works out great for me.

-Craig

**imfallen_angel** · 08-30-2012, 06:09 AM

Well this thread just made me get up and check what I have, and I do have some of my original stock which is the paper with designs and inked blades.

I've received a second order a while ago, but they are set aside so I'll have to check them. (stored in bedroom and wife's asleep)

But I got mine from eBay, from the same seller I believe, and they've been very good blades, pretty much my go-to. (the old stock)