Trying to do this cheaply

[akappa]

As this is my 1st try with a straight razor i'm wanting to just get the basics without spending to much money, what would be the lowest grade stone you can get away with?
I've read that alot of people say 8k but i've found a 1k/6k japanese water stone for £31.00 and wondered if that would work for a beginner
http://www.axminster.co.uk/ice-bear-...sfile=1&jump=0

[dakotaev]

I'd go with lapping film if you're looking to start out on a budget. It's the most effective way while spending the least amount.

You'll probably be disappointed if you buy cheap stones.

[SliceOfLife]

If you buy a razor that is shave ready you just need a single stone and strop to maintain them. Get a high grit (8k JIS or higher) stone or anything people refer to around here as a finisher.


If you're actually looking to sharpen dull razors though:

6k JIS is finer than 8k Norton. I don't like shaving off either (at all) but it's certainly possible.

1k to 6k JIS is doable (it's pretty common with knives, that's actually why those stones exist I believe) but will take a lot of time on the 6k with razors.

Cheapest you can probably do without a lot of hassle is get a 1/6 like that and stick a 3k in the middle. Taidea or Masahiro have cheap ones if memory serves. I believe it was under $30 for a 3k Masahiro when I bought one a few years back.

[dakotaev]

This thread should give you some insight into the product and some posts on where to buy:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...t=lapping+film

[davew]

Those stones are standard baked clay aluminum oxide stones, and would be fine for everything except final finishing of a razor. You'll want a lapping film or a balsa strop of chromium oxide to finish the job that a 6k stone can't.

You can experiment with different methods, like letting the surface of the 6k side dry and glaze while you finish your sharpening strokes on it, but you'll still need chromium oxide on something, and by that I mean chromium oxide powder or paste, not a waxy stick from a woodworking supply store (which can work, but it's not as good for razors and it has aluminum oxide in a higher volume than it does chromium oxide).

At any rate, even though ice bear stones are an inexpensive baked clay aluminum oxide stone, they are definitely more aggressive than what was used on razors long ago, and you'll be able to make your way with them, at least if you find something to follow them.

I personally don't know why anyone tells beginners they should learn to finish an edge on an 8k stone when there are finer mediums available, and the hone job should be about the sharpness, not about false dilemmas or the possibility of overhoning, which just won't happen at very fine grit levels with the right abrasives.

[akappa]

Everyone says different things haha so basically the stone in the op would be ok with a finishing stone and maybe a 3-4k stone?

is this about right?
220=removes tiny chips
1k=sets an edge
4k=sharpens the edge
8k=smooths the edge
12k=puts a smoother edge

i'l look into lapping film now aswell. Thanks for the help

[davew]

No, just the cheap stone you showed and any finisher. You can forget all of the overhoning talk if you finish with chromium oxide or a sufficiently fine natural finisher.

Take it from someone who's using stones for kitchen knives, woodworking tools, razors, anything I can get my fingers on, if all you're doing is shaving with a razor, if you're doing it right and not using a loaded hanging strop, once you get the razor set up properly the coarsest you will ever go will be a slurried natural stone - you won't even go down to the 6k side of that combination stone. The 6k with slurry on the top and a little bit of pressure (before you back off the pressure for final strokes) will easily go right after the 1k edge.

[Seraphim]

Lapping film.



Of course

[Legion]

My first set was a King 800 grit, a Norton 4k/8k and a C-nat. I did lots of old ebay razors with that set up and got good results.

I gravitated to using coticules pretty much exclusively now, but I still cant bring myself to part with the old stones.

[PapaFish]

The cheapest way I can get a shaveable edge:
I purchased a piece of slate flooring tile at Home Depot. I spent a lot of time looking for a good piece with no voids and a relatively flat surface (at least in spots). It cost $1.60 after tax. I cut it and lapped a good size piece. With slurry and enough time, it will set a bevel (but I wouldn't use it to remove a chip/ding unless I had nothing else), finish on water for a 6K (American) edge (not shavable in my book). I would follow that with my piece of oil shale that I found at a rock shop for $1 (leaves a nice 8K-ish (American) edge).
What? You don't want to spend time finding make-shift hones? Ok, find a barber's hone. A two sided would be the way to go. I have a lead on a potential two sided barber's hone (2"x5") for $10. I haven't tried it out, so it's hard to say how fine the "fine" side actually is (or for that matter how coarse the "coarse" side is).
Just want a finishing stone? Try a Chinese Natural. I have seen plenty come up in the BST for around $25. I have one and like it a lot. Some don't like theirs, other's swear by them, but naturals have a tendency to vary from one to another.
Lots like their lapping films too...
The 1K/6K stone you link to is on a Japanese scale, and the 6K side should give you a usable edge (if done properly). 6K Japanese is over 9K American. I have never tried one of those stones, so maybe someone else can chime in on how they work.

[Slash McCoy]

I have one of those 1k/6k combo stones and I have shaved off it, finished with lather. Not the best shave but it will shave if you are good with this stone. And it is cheap and quite large. Lap it with sandpaper on an old glass coffee table top.

The 1k side is excellent for setting the bevel when you are going to use film. Go stone then 12u and progress through 1u over wet paper and you got a fast, easy, and ridiculously sharp edge.

For routine maintenance honing just need 1u film and maybe 3u. Or a 3" wide pasted balsa strop. Load one side with 1u diamond and the flip side with .25u.

[Alum of Potash]

Last summer, while in France, I brought back a couple of junkers with a Puma 1k/6k, Thiers-Issard alox-diamond paste, and crox. Just be sure to keep the surfaces lapped.

[Pkrankow]

Belgian coticule, a 40x150 or 50x200 will take care of anything. yea, about $100. One stone solution plus a slurry stone, easy to learn, gets fair edges easily, good to excellent edges with some practice.

Or

Lapping film. Cheap, easy, cheap, fast, cheap, good...but no mojo.

Pick one.

Phil

[Alum of Potash]

The 1K/6K stone you link to is on a Japanese scale, and the 6K side should give you a usable edge (if done properly). 6K Japanese is over 9K American. I have never tried one of those stones, so maybe someone else can chime in on how they work.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but when people throw out numbers with water stones, or even stones in general here, they normally are referring to JIS, or the Japanese scale, are they not? When I think of the American scale, that would either be CAMI or "mesh," whose grit number ratings are lower for the equivalent average micron size than JIS. To what higher American scale are you referring?

[Drybonz]

a Norton 4k/8k and a C-nat.

This seems to be the default cheapy setup... maybe even replace the cnat with some lapping films. Then just try not to read the honing forum so you don't get the bug.

[professorchaos]

Don't buy cheap. Buy inexpensive.

I'd go with lapping film if you're looking to start out on a budget. It's the most effective way while spending the least amount.

You'll probably be disappointed if you buy cheap stones.

This.

[SliceOfLife]

I assume he means Norton which (at 8k) is = Mesh.

[PapaFish]

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but when people throw out numbers with water stones, or even stones in general here, they normally are referring to JIS, or the Japanese scale, are they not? When I think of the American scale, that would either be CAMI or "mesh," whose grit number ratings are lower for the equivalent average micron size than JIS. To what higher American scale are you referring?

I am referring to the American scale that Norton uses on it's 4K/8K stone. Others use it also. A while back, I converted between different scales and had a graph and everything. You can search the honing forum for. "Grit to micron graph" and read more if you like.

[tomjr]

+ 1 with legions suggestions. they just work.

[Alum of Potash]

I assume he means Norton which (at 8k) is = Mesh.

I am referring to the American scale that Norton uses on it's 4K/8K stone. Others use it also. A while back, I converted between different scales and had a graph and everything. You can search the honing forum for. "Grit to micron graph" and read more if you like.

Given B&B's search engine, I haven't looked at or found the "grit to micron" graph, but Norton's own catalog lists their water stones under a JIS heading. Here's a link to it: http://www.nortonindustrial.com/uplo...ningStones.pdf. It takes a while to load, but their rating is on the third page down (which is marked 52). Mesh gives a lower rating at the finer end of the scale. Steve Bottorff's book, Sharpening Made Easy, has chart listing a hard black Arkansas at 1000x mesh as ~4000 JIS. Mesh, in this case, would be the "American" rating system, or U.S. Industrial Mesh. Other charts vary slightly from these, including Leonard Lee's abrasive-grade comparison, given in The Complete Guide to Sharpening, where he remarks, "The Japanese standard above 1000x [mesh] has become dominant worldwide in bench stones, because the Japanese are virtually the only manufacturers of fine grit stones. Eventually, the measurement of grit size in microns will likely dominate, because it is the only system that is both rational and readily understandable by anyone, anywhere."