Any way to spot a fraudulent frag?

[Crag]

I recently went to Nordstrom's Rack in Chino Hills and bought a bottle of Creed Silver Mountain Water, and while the fragrance smells and wears the same as the bottle I'm replacing it is a bit queer in it's appearance. For one, the bottle is awkward, it tips back and forth, and does not sit level on the shelf. Secondly, the paint does not completely cover the entire bottle. Is there a way to make sure that it is 100% authentic?

I couldn't find a Creed Website or I would have contacted them in the beginning.

Thank you,

[MikeNYC]

The best way to spot a fake frag is to check the UPC bar code on the bottle/box. The first number indicates the country of origin. 0 is USA, 7 or 3 either France or Italy, don't know UK number.

[indykramer]

You know this happened to me last Christmas. I was buying my usual cologne i couldn't find it anywhere except for "one those stands" in the mall. I bought it. after i got home i realized that the fragrance had changed or they bottle the women's version in it. Luckily they took it back and exchanged it for a totally different scent. But it does make you wonder if this sort of thing happens alot.

[moses]

Well, I really don't know.

Btw, about the UPC thing. If it was a fake, wouldn't they fake the correct numbers on the bar code too?

It seems awfully unlikely, getting a fake at Nordstrom's, though. I mean, off the internet is one thing, but Nordstrom's is altogether another.

-Mo

[OldSchoolYoungin]

I very highly doubt that you'd get a counterfeit item at Nordstrom's. As far as I know, they have legitimate contracts with their clients, so what you see is always the real thing.

[perry]

And, hopefully, if someone offered Nordstrom some discounted juice, that their security department would get involved and contact the designer.

I know the company I work for caught on to some of our stolen products being sold that way.. A store called the company to ask about the products because they thought the pricing was too low.

[MikeNYC]

Well, I really don't know.

Btw, about the UPC thing. If it was a fake, wouldn't they fake the correct numbers on the bar code too?

It seems awfully unlikely, getting a fake at Nordstrom's, though. I mean, off the internet is one thing, but Nordstrom's is altogether another.

-Mo

To make fake UPC code, is like making fake money. Super hard, but possible. The code printers are issued only by governmnet agencies already pre-programmed with a company code. CAN'T RECONFIGURE. Must build your own printer.

P.S. Just because it's a big department store, doesn't mean they keep track all the time of their supply chains. Look what happened at Mattel Barbie.

[Thomas]

To make fake UPC code, is like making fake money. Super hard, but possible. The code printers are issued only by governmnet agencies already pre-programmed with a company code. CAN'T RECONFIGURE. Must build your own printer.

Umm, not in my experience unless we're talking about different codes. First thing I can say is that: to a computer, a bar code is simply another font, so a computer can print 12345 as Ariel, or Times, or 3 of 9, or UPC. So, if you have the UPC font, you can print a UPC code on whatever print media you like. The UPC font is available on a number of commercially available label printing packages.

The ink - nothing special. Not like check printing ink, which is magnetic and outrageously expensive.

Getting a code. To issue your own UPC codes, you register with GS1 (formerly UCC), pay their fee, and they assign you a company prefix - 6 digits. You then are free to assign your own serial numbers to the items you're selling. There isn't really a government database of UPC codes to my reckoning. You can buy a one-off UPC code from a re-seller if you need only one, but you'll not be recognized as the manufacturer of the product, since you're using a prefix registered to a different firm.

[bjrn]

UPC is just a simple barcode (this goes for both UPC A and UPC E). It's trivial to encode or decode.

[Crag]

I very highly doubt that you'd get a counterfeit item at Nordstrom's. As far as I know, they have legitimate contracts with their clients, so what you see is always the real thing.

That's what I thought too, but the Creed USA website doesn't show Nordstrom as a retailer of their fragrances. Only Saks 5th Ave, and Nieman Marcus. PLUS, I bought it at the Nordstrom Rack, not the Main Retail location, so that's why I'm wondering.

[Crag]

Umm, not in my experience unless we're talking about different codes. First thing I can say is that: to a computer, a bar code is simply another font, so a computer can print 12345 as Ariel, or Times, or 3 of 9, or UPC. So, if you have the UPC font, you can print a UPC code on whatever print media you like. The UPC font is available on a number of commercially available label printing packages.

The ink - nothing special. Not like check printing ink, which is magnetic and outrageously expensive.

Getting a code. To issue your own UPC codes, you register with GS1 (formerly UCC), pay their fee, and they assign you a company prefix - 6 digits. You then are free to assign your own serial numbers to the items you're selling. There isn't really a government database of UPC codes to my reckoning. You can buy a one-off UPC code from a re-seller if you need only one, but you'll not be recognized as the manufacturer of the product, since you're using a prefix registered to a different firm.

I know all about UPC codes because the company I work for makes some OEM printers for RFID Technologies that also print UPC codes. UPC is nothing special. BTW UPC stands for Unique Product Code, and was designed by IBM to control the plethora of parts they had. Bar codes, on the other hand were invented by the Chinese.

[garfinkel]

If it smells the same, don't worry about. However, my guess is that it is legit. Nordstrom, OTR or proper, are both reputable. It is most likely a "reject" or as they would say in clothes "slightly irregular" in that the bottle itself had manufacturing problems, so was not up the the standards of selling it in the main stores.

Enjoy.

[JoePerri]

Bar codes, on the other hand were invented by the Chinese.

I don't think so.

The first barcode was developed in 1948 by two graduate students at Drexel Institute of Technology, Bernard Silver and Norman Joseph Woodland. They filed for a U.S. patent in October 1949 and it was granted in 1952.

[Rorschuck]

I know all about UPC codes because the company I work for makes some OEM printers for RFID Technologies that also print UPC codes. UPC is nothing special. BTW UPC stands for Unique Product Code, and was designed by IBM to control the plethora of parts they had. Bar codes, on the other hand were invented by the Chinese.

It's actually "Universal Product Code", and while IBM certainly holds the patent for the system we know today, UPC's development dates back to the 1930s; several parties have made incremental improvements.

[bjrn]

And taking the thread hi-jack even further, there's a guy called Scott Blake who does real neat things with bar codes. I quite like the portraits.

[Aevum]

returning to the issue at hand, here in spain its very common for street vendors and open air markets to carry "fake" perfumes, the bottle is similar but not exactly the same, you notice the colours on the box and bottle are slightly off, and the smell isnt exactly the same, usualy the scent is reverse engnieered, basicly they smell, mix, smell and when it smells more or less the same, they bottle it, the problem is that more or less,

[Crag]

I don't think so.

LOL it was a joke....

[Crag]

And taking the thread hi-jack even further, there's a guy called Scott Blake who does real neat things with bar codes. I quite like the portraits.

I appreciate all the replies, and actually like all the comments and HIJAKERS in this thread...it's very amusing!

I wanted to give you a heads-up. I spoke to a kind gentleman at Creed, and he sent me a replacement bottle at no cost, and asked me to simply fill out a quality control information survey sheet, and send the sample back to them at their cost. They have made me a client for life!!!

They were very gracious and apologetic about my concerns and agreed that there are too many counterfeiters, but assured me that Nordstrom is one of their US customers, and sometimes inferiorly packaged items do make it into the stores inventory and end-up being sold at outlets.

The experience was very pleasant and I had the new bottle in 2 days from Creed USA, and a Mens sample box of all their popular fragrances which usually sells for around $35.

[Coda]

As I have some experience in this area, I feel that I should comment. Please don't take this the wrong way, as I do not have any involvment in this practice.

Some years ago, I was introduced by way of a mutual friend to somebody who was selling fragrances. Lots of them. And I could have them cheap, for resale. After enquiring with this gentleman I was told that these fragrances were fakes, but they were identical to the real thing, but at about 4/5 of the cost. I happily bought several as it was close to Christmas, and I thought they would make great presents, although I would tell the recipients that they weren't genuine. I didn't expect these fragrances to be of any substantial quality though.

Anyway, as it turns out, some of the recipients told me that they could not believe they were fake, including my own mother who had a Chanel no.19 'habit'. Of course, I knew this and I had given her the fake no.19. There was absolutely no difference. The scent, the packaging (even the inside) was identical to the one on her dressing table.

With this information over coffee I enquired of my 'contact' exactly how they could be so close. What he told me was interesting. The perfume 'knock-off' business is HUGE. It is directly run by big criminal gangs, just like the drug distribution business. They have extremely talented chemists who work out the scent formulations, and then they have people who used to forge currencies work out the packaging details (which is somewhat easier to forge than money). This attention to detail creates a product which is almost undetectable as a fake except by an expert. As you can imagine this brings in huge sums of money, at a substantially lower risk than currency forgery.

My problem was that I ended up with lots of people asking to buy perfumes from me (and at 50% of the retail price of the genuine item they would have made me a small fortune), but after learning of the criminal reality of the situation, I had to decline.

[MikeNYC]

As I have some experience in this area, I feel that I should comment. Please don't take this the wrong way, as I do not have any involvment in this practice.

Some years ago, I was introduced by way of a mutual friend to somebody who was selling fragrances. Lots of them. And I could have them cheap, for resale. After enquiring with this gentleman I was told that these fragrances were fakes, but they were identical to the real thing, but at about 4/5 of the cost. I happily bought several as it was close to Christmas, and I thought they would make great presents, although I would tell the recipients that they weren't genuine. I didn't expect these fragrances to be of any substantial quality though.

Anyway, as it turns out, some of the recipients told me that they could not believe they were fake, including my own mother who had a Chanel no.19 'habit'. Of course, I knew this and I had given her the fake no.19. There was absolutely no difference. The scent, the packaging (even the inside) was identical to the one on her dressing table.

With this information over coffee I enquired of my 'contact' exactly how they could be so close. What he told me was interesting. The perfume 'knock-off' business is HUGE. It is directly run by big criminal gangs, just like the drug distribution business. They have extremely talented chemists who work out the scent formulations, and then they have people who used to forge currencies work out the packaging details (which is somewhat easier to forge than money). This attention to detail creates a product which is almost undetectable as a fake except by an expert. As you can imagine this brings in huge sums of money, at a substantially lower risk than currency forgery.

My problem was that I ended up with lots of people asking to buy perfumes from me (and at 50% of the retail price of the genuine item they would have made me a small fortune), but after learning of the criminal reality of the situation, I had to decline.

Imagine if you have a fake Acqua Di Parma cream sitting in your drawer? Scary thought, isn't?