Anyone use a BBW?

[BakerAndBadger]

Hi,

Was looking on coticule.be and read about Bart's tests on the BBW as a post bevel setting hone.
Anyone here use a BBW as a hone? I've been checking them out and I can get a 20cm x 5 cm for 40 something Euros - it's a snip compared with my identically sized coti, plus it seems that I'd be able to get away with dodgy dillution if I do a dilucot style hone.

Thanks for your comments and experiences. Even if you are all negative I'll probably drop 32 Euros on a 15 * 5 BBW and see for myself, then I'll have to find somewhere to store my new Welsh slates that I'll be getting on Sunday.

Cheers,

Paul

[Mike H]

I have had limited success, but not given them my full attention.

See here for more information:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...-s-the-verdict

• I have been honing quite a few razors on 5 different BBWs that I have on loan from Ardennes, coming from 5 different layers.
  The edges are every bit as good as what I can get off a Coticule. They are slower on slurry and can't reach as far back as a Coticule to recover a bevel from severe dullness or convexity. Undoing a secondary bevel that was cut with a layer of tape is no problem, and neither is the correction of a razor's bevel after normal use. But bevels that were really stropped out of shape by a starting shaver who tried to awake his edge with a pasted strop over and over again before he decided to send it out, can be a challenge. I would normally not stay longer on a hone than 15 minutes during the bevel stage, but for research' sake, I 've been giving the BBW 30 minutes, which makes a difference. But I would still recommend to keep a 1K stone nearby, or a Coticule.
  
  Once the bevel is done, the BBWs have little problem upping the keenness and putting on a very decent finish. I don't doubt that they will remain forever in the shadow of Coticules, at least for honing straight razors.
  The reasons are plenty:
  
  1. They are blue. They don't nearly show what's going on with the slurry as well as the pale surface of a Coticule.
  
  2. Although they are mined from various layers, there is no record kept of that. There are no formal layer names (except for the depleted "La Veine Lorraine"). Of course, layer names don't make a hone better, but they do add a lot to the charm and mystery of Coticules.
  
  3. They are slower on slurry as a Coticule and therefor less versatile. Even though a patient person wouldn't have problems using them for the same tasks as a Coticule.
  
  4. They don't have the small army of Coticule users to testify that they will eventually offer outstanding results, even if the first attempts are frustrating. Neither do they are supported by a couple ages of use.
  
  5. They are cheap and lack the idea of exclusivity that a Coticule has. Most Coticule owners look at their rock as a unique specimen. I don't know any tools that exert a more emotional attraction on people than Coticules and Japanese Natural hones. Even the fabled Escher will remain "just an Escher" to most owners. A BBW will probably always remain "just a BBW". While many have a personal bond with their Coticule(s) and/or Japanese natural hones.
  
  But objectively spoken, I can hone edges on both BBWs and Coticules, and I am quite sure that no one will be able to discern a difference.
  
  Kind regards,
  Bart.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...6-Belgian-Blue

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...8-Belgian-Blue

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...Blue-Whetstone

[BakerAndBadger]

Cheers Mike

[SliceOfLife]

Bart did make one mistake (which I've corrected him in a thread or two before for) there.

I've dug more than a couple oil soaked and blade-dinged BBW's out of century old boxes. They have been used as honing stones for plenty of time... though not in the capacity (barbers stones) coticules seem to have been.


I recall when he (and a couple others from his forums I believe) did their BBW test. I gave it a try and never got near the same finish off bbw I could get off coticules... but in fairness, I didn't spend much time since the "goal" was an equal but not better edge after doing more work... not exactly a tempting proposition. I don't doubt that the guys who put in the effort got shaving edges out of BBW... but as someone with a lot of coti honing experience, I couldn't pick one up and treat it like a slow coti and get a result I found acceptable. So unless you already have a BBW and absolutely can not get a coticule (honestly the price isn't THAT much different unless you are buying a huge stone), I don't see the point.


Long story short. I don't believe anyone who already has a coti PREFERS to work on a BBW with razors. I think even the guys who did the test were like "Yeah it works fine." Then they went right back to using their Coti's for reasons 1 and 3 from Barts post (and possibly 2, 4 and 5).

[BakerAndBadger]

Thanks for the info Ian, I might just try and pick up a nice looking bout then instead. I've already got my coti but I want to tinker with other stuff!

[MilkyLee]

I have a "ugly" La Verte natural combo and I enjoy honing on the BBW side more than the coti side, to me it has more feedback. I've gotten to the point now where I can get very nice edges of my BBW. I would say it is a little bit less keen than the coti side, but much smoother. That being said I really like the edges of both sides of the stone.

[BakerAndBadger]

I have a "ugly" La Verte natural combo.

If you want to swap it I have a beautiful synthetic 600/1000 stone which would grace the coffee table of any modern home.

[jkh]

I have a "ugly" La Verte natural combo and I enjoy honing on the BBW side more than the coti side, to me it has more feedback. I've gotten to the point now where I can get very nice edges of my BBW. I would say it is a little bit less keen than the coti side, but much smoother. That being said I really like the edges of both sides of the stone.

This is how I feel too - I love the feel of BBW. Typically, I hone up the razor on BBW and then give the finishing touches on a Coticule.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to mention how I use BBW. I start with a thick slurry and do circles or halfstrokes, adding a drip or two of water so the slurry doesn't dry up, until the edge is mowing down hair/leg hair with ease. Then I'll start doing dilutions (I dilute a lot more aggressively on BBW - two or three finger loads per dilution) until I get to HHT-1 (usually there is a still slurry on the stone). At this point I stop rinse the razor and finish on a Coticule. Finishing up on a Coticule is just so much easier for me, so I have not ever really tried to perfect the edge off a BBW.

EDIT2: And the only reason I ever started playing with BBW is because I have some combo stones.

[SliceOfLife]

I stand corrected. Perhaps BBW vary as much as coti's do.

[Krodor]

I really like my BBW...In fact I am liking the edges I get off of it better than my little coti (likely cuz I haven't fully learned my coti)... Shhh....don't tell anyone.

[linguist]

i have two BBW. one is combo glued to coti and the other is half of a single vintage BBW which was used by a barber. i use them for finishing after coticule. it is ok with me. and i sharpen my pocketknife. feedback is very nice. they are smooth and soft.

[honed]

BBW is a very nice stone. But the coticule really has the edge on pretty much all counts.
And for a decent sized stone suited for razors, the price aint to bad for coticules.

However, the BBW is certainly a very capable stone.

I did some experiments with my BBW (newly mined bench sized stone) on a few kitchen knives.
Just like with other naturals it was reaaaaaaally slow on modern, high-alloy steels.
But on high-carbon it performs beautifully.

Here's an example of the finish I was able to put on a Tojiro White Steel gyuto, using only a BBW, thick slurry, thin slurry & plain water.
As you can see on the primary bevel it's a bright mirror with just a hint of shade. Pretty much what you expect on a shave-ready straight razor edge finished on a coticule/BBW
Same for the secondary edgy (visible towards the tip in this pic)
This knife was definitely shave-ready, passing the HHT with ease

[danjared]

I find them especially nice with razors that have a large bevel and thus require more time to reach an optimal keenness. One does not seem to need to be as precise with dilutions as with coticules, so it's easier to discretize and length the honing steps.

[shakin_jake]

I think it's worth buying/owning a piece of BBW, in that I bought one and wouldn't part with it. It sees more action keeping the edge up on my 8' Chef's knife more than doiung any razor work with it lately but when I first acquired my BBW (40X150mm), it was early in my coticule honing career and it taught me how to put a good edge on a razor using it in progression with my other coticules

how I would use it...I used an LPB for bevel correction and once satisfied the edge was ready to move on (ably cut arm hair) I went to the BBW with wet slurry. About 100 x strokes keeping it wet, then I finished on straight water coticule. this was at a time I was having difficulties making the transition through coticule dilutions...AKA dilucot

I'm not sure how to describe it but going from my LPB correcting the bevel to the BBW wet and slurried, then on to coticule again but with water only, this progression enabled me to understand how to move up through the dilution stages of dilucot, totally on one coticule only. You might say that BBW was the gateway for me

Anymore I have no trouble performing dilucot (none whatsoever) and I owe that success to using BBW in progression w/coticules. But alas, the only use my BBW gets is sharpening my chef knife...and it does a fine job of doing that


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[SliceOfLife]

You all have me curious about using my BBW with my knives now. I primarily have been using DMTs and some slates and nova's.

[honed]

You all have me curious about using my BBW with my knives now. I primarily have been using DMTs and some slates and nova's.

It's not magic in any sense, but they definitely work well with knives

[H Brad Boonshaft]

So what do you think one should look for in a BBW? I have seen the plain purple with darker grits, the dark fisheyes and the ones that look like Lacewood. See a lot of images of Coticles but not much on BBW.

[Krodor]

Look for? Chuckle. I said to self "dude, you just got about 50 bucks to blow on a hone. Hey! I'd like to try a BBW, cuz I'm cheap, impatient in that i dont want to wait further to save up for a coti, and I'm not certain the thing glue to the back of my little coti is a BBW. And dang it, I wanna purple pretty rock!"

So self goes to thesuperiorshave.com, sees bbw's being sold for the price and size that fits me, I buy one and a coti slurry stone and wham-bam I gots me a BBW. They treat you good there.

I dilucotted a razor on my coti to hair popping post stropping, followed that with water on BBW, and got that to root-in hair popping post strop, and shaved it this morning....nice.