Do people dress like slobs today? Or were people 100 years ago just plain and drab?

[AjaxLepinski]

My grandfather, born in 1894, would put on a suit and tie, with a hat, just to go to the corner store for some milk.
On a trip to Paris in 2002, I noticed that the pan handlers were dressed better than I was!

[Doc4]

To me, a person who looks healthy and dressed down is more attractive than one who looks less healthy and is all dressed up or made up, male or female. Basic hygiene helps of course, but beyond that, it is all just trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. It amazes me how we accept the current state of affairs of the american lifestyle and the poor health indicators that generally come with it for most of the population. Brainwashing by mass media hasn't helped this issue, it has made it worse, as people strive to be thin instead of healthy, and then they look gaunt and sickly instead of attractive at their "ideal" body weight. Argh.

I really thought you were going to go with the "... and everyone is overweight, if not obese, which is far worse than wearing the 'wrong' outfit.

Americans (and, quite frankly, Canadians) don't have to worry about being too skinny, but about being far, far too fat.

... but after all, this is just the Haberdashery, where we chat about clothing, not debate the social ills that plague our society, so I'll leave it at that, and agree with you that "healthy" is just about the best style one can wear.

[jamesj1578]

In our workplace, we have a saying: Always dress for the job you want next.

+1 i am learning this more and more everyday since i have graduated from school. Now i am at my first full time job and i one of the best dressed ones there

[MrMurphy]

My grandfather, born in 1906, was a master carpenter.

The only time I ever saw him in a suit was when we buried him, and at their 50th or 60th anniversary. In the 20s and 30s, he probably had a nicer shirt on than most carpenters would wear today, but he was a working man, and dressed appropriately.

[AjaxLepinski]

My grandfather, born in 1906, was a master carpenter.

The only time I ever saw him in a suit was when we buried him, and at their 50th or 60th anniversary. In the 20s and 30s, he probably had a nicer shirt on than most carpenters would wear today, but he was a working man, and dressed appropriately.

It's a small world indeed! My grandfather (b-1894 immigrated from Finland in 1921) and he too was a Master Carpenter!!

[Robert45]

Flip-flops (the cheap rubber kind) are the worst. They are everywhere...in offices, in stores and shops...in churchs...everywhere and more "everywhere" as the years go by.

[almueller]

I like wearing a suit and tie or sportcoat and tie to work except during the hot summer months. When I dress well, I feel good. My problem with people today is that, even though I like dressing well, my co-workers who do not like to dress well act as if there is something wrong with me because I dress well. Does anyone else find that to be true where they work?

[conroygc]

Maybe my optimism for the human race (and especially Americans) is a little too high, but I really don't think it's because "people are slobs".

I think the answer is cultural traditions and economics. You can only wear what you can buy (or make).

In the 40s they didn't have t-shirts, jeans and hoodies for everyday wear (some workers did wear these things, however they weren't common). If a men went out and bought clothing, it was a suit. That's what was sold, and what was available, period. The materials and construction were higher quality.
Secondly people will buy what they can affording, and quality clothing is expensive. Nice-looking clothing isn't often expensive, but perhaps hard to find. People wear what's available and what is affordable.

That being said, every time I see this:


I think this:

[conroygc]

I like wearing a suit and tie or sportcoat and tie to work except during the hot summer months. When I dress well, I feel good. My problem with people today is that, even though I like dressing well, my co-workers who do not like to dress well act as if there is something wrong with me because I dress well. Does anyone else find that to be true where they work?

I used to work in an office environment, the dress code was very lax. I had people ask me why I was wearing a tie on nearly a daily basis. I finally started telling them I have a job interview and a court date, because that's the only reason people wear ties anymore, right?

[djm]

Really? In this day and age, all kinds of poorly dressed people have dramatic impacts on society. Musicians, actors, CEOs: Steve Jobs in jeans and a turtle neck had profound impact on society.

Just quoting the first line- but I agree with much of what Rob_NH has said in his posts. I am a little surprised to find how many people seem to be extremely judgmental (actually, I am not- but I wish I were.)

I wear Carharts and a T-shirt pretty much every day. The fact is that I can be scheduled for a lunch meeting with a sales rep or contractor where they are dressed in a suit and tie but I remain in Carharts. Perhaps 50% of the days I could dress up in a button down shirt, slacks and wear an expensive watch. However, when something goes wrong it is usually me who is crawling through a decade of dirt and dust and looking at the problem- and I never know when that will happen. I have wrecked two pairs of expensive sunglasses and one watch by scratching them beyond use when I first started and learned that it just does not pay to look sharp all the time.

A few years ago there was a batch of people in the front offices (accountants, HR and PR people) who looked down their noses at anybody in the back who could not be in leather loafers and a suit. Thank God every last one has quit or... well, they are gone. The replacements all, without exception treat people like human beings regardless of the dress that a job dictates one must adhere to. I would ask the gentleman who was referring to working at a car dealership if he thinks any less of the mechanics who do not show up to work in a three piece suit... is the assumption that a grease monkey must be slovenly, unintelligent and not worthy of conversing with based on how he shows up to work? Is part of this based on their oil stained coveralls and grease under their fingernails?

I spent time in Fort McMurray (mines and oilsands.) If I walked in to a car dealership dressed like what many people in this thread refer to as a slob next to somebody done up in a suit and tie I can guarantee that the salesman (wearing a suit) would walk over to me first. The fact is that a welder, pipe fitter or process operator up there is almost certainly better off and more likely to be in need of a $60 000 truck than the guy in a suit.

The point is that you dress the part. You dress to suit your lifestyle and what you are doing. Today I was in basketball shorts, an underarmour shirt and vibram toe shoes all day. I hit the gym, went cycling and hit the lake on my jet ski. I was not about to stop and change into a sport jacket and slacks between each activity. I polish up pretty good when I head to the opera or even a play. However, I suppose that most who have taken the time to reply to this thread would dismiss me out of hand should we pass on the street as just another slob.

[GrimmFu]

The point is that you dress the part. You dress to suit your lifestyle and what you are doing. Today I was in basketball shorts, an underarmour shirt and vibram toe shoes all day. I hit the gym, went cycling and hit the lake on my jet ski. I was not about to stop and change into a sport jacket and slacks between each activity. I polish up pretty good when I head to the opera or even a play. However, I suppose that most who have taken the time to reply to this thread would dismiss me out of hand should we pass on the street as just another slob.

I agree 100%. Again, to my mind the distinction is not "suit=sharp" and anything else is slovenly; it is more that whatever you are doing, the requisite and appropriate attire is clean, cared for, and worn with some degree of self respect. To my mind, the outfit you describe could exemplify either extreme. Clean, fitting, and well cared for, that outfit would present fine and speak well of you. Mustard stains on your shirt with your balls hanging out of holey shorts, maybe not so much.

My take is that we should try to take care and pride in the things we do; mindful living. I believe that can elevate society as a whole in the long run. I agree there is an inherent danger to judging others based on appearance using our own standards...a Subaru sales rep lost a sale because he didn't think a guy in jeans and a t-shirt with long hair and motorcycle boots could afford the car I wanted... Regardless of how well put together i was. So he refused to help me out. I ended up buying a different car from a different dealer that same day, in cash.

The point is it's great to have our own values that we strive to live by, but dangerous when we judge at face value those who live by different values. It's a fine line.

Gf

[Doc4]

Just quoting the first line- but I agree with much of what Rob_NH has said in his posts. I am a little surprised to find how many people seem to be extremely judgmental (actually, I am not- but I wish I were.)

I wear Carharts and a T-shirt pretty much every day. The fact is that I can be scheduled for a lunch meeting with a sales rep or contractor where they are dressed in a suit and tie but I remain in Carharts. Perhaps 50% of the days I could dress up in a button down shirt, slacks and wear an expensive watch. However, when something goes wrong it is usually me who is crawling through a decade of dirt and dust and looking at the problem- and I never know when that will happen. I have wrecked two pairs of expensive sunglasses and one watch by scratching them beyond use when I first started and learned that it just does not pay to look sharp all the time.

A few years ago there was a batch of people in the front offices (accountants, HR and PR people) who looked down their noses at anybody in the back who could not be in leather loafers and a suit. Thank God every last one has quit or... well, they are gone. The replacements all, without exception treat people like human beings regardless of the dress that a job dictates one must adhere to. I would ask the gentleman who was referring to working at a car dealership if he thinks any less of the mechanics who do not show up to work in a three piece suit... is the assumption that a grease monkey must be slovenly, unintelligent and not worthy of conversing with based on how he shows up to work? Is part of this based on their oil stained coveralls and grease under their fingernails?

I spent time in Fort McMurray (mines and oilsands.) If I walked in to a car dealership dressed like what many people in this thread refer to as a slob next to somebody done up in a suit and tie I can guarantee that the salesman (wearing a suit) would walk over to me first. The fact is that a welder, pipe fitter or process operator up there is almost certainly better off and more likely to be in need of a $60 000 truck than the guy in a suit.

The point is that you dress the part. You dress to suit your lifestyle and what you are doing. Today I was in basketball shorts, an underarmour shirt and vibram toe shoes all day. I hit the gym, went cycling and hit the lake on my jet ski. I was not about to stop and change into a sport jacket and slacks between each activity. I polish up pretty good when I head to the opera or even a play. However, I suppose that most who have taken the time to reply to this thread would dismiss me out of hand should we pass on the street as just another slob.

Whoa! ... slow down there, Charlie.

There's a heck of a lot less "judgemental" in this thread than you seem to think. No one is suggesting that an auto mechanic show up for work in a 3-piece suit ... if someone has done that, and I missed it ... please point me to the post and I'll gladly join you in saying that guy's silly.

But is there anything wrong with guys who work an office job ... who never have to get dirty, who never have to sweat, who probably do nothing more strenuous than put another bottle on top of the water cooler ... taking some pride in their appearance?

Of course guys who work a hard, grimy job should dress the part ... but even there I bet you'll agree there's still "dressing well" and "not giving a d##n", right? You don't just wear any old crap to work "coz I might get dirty" ... no, you wear decent-looking work clothes.

... right?

[djm]

Whoa! ... slow down there, Charlie. There's a heck of a lot less "judgemental" in this thread than you seem to think.... ou don't just wear any old crap to work "coz I might get dirty" ... no, you wear decent-looking work clothes. ... right?

Yes and no. If I know that I have a meeting scheduled I try to wear clean cloths. In two weeks myself and two other guys will be tearing a piece of equipment apart for a rebuild. I will likely take the hydraulic rams off for a rebuild and will end up covered in fluid. It will be disassembled and I have a company coming in to sandblast it. After that we will be spraying a high performance Cloverdale paint that the public cannot buy. If I avoid the hydraulic fluid the paint will ruin anything that I am wearing. That day I will be in stained, torn, old, dirty shirt and jeans. That day I will not wear any old crap... I will wear the oldest and rattiest that I own. Should I pass you on the street I will provide a prime example of all that is wrong with society and how little people care for their appearance.

I suppose, perhaps that my take on this thread is different. The mechanic in a three piece suit came from the first page. I have no doubt that the poster was not implying that the mechanic should dress up (it was more what the sales team wears.) My question was honest- and not based strictly on ones choice in clothing. I am willing to bet that a salesman has very little to do with the staff in the shop and makes an effort to avoid them. It is a scenario that I have seen played out over and over where people decide that they belong in a certain circle and exclude those who do not fit. To be fair, if I were on a mechanics forum I would ask the same of the mechanic- no doubt they avoid the front office staff as well; it is a two way street on that count. I am simply pointing out that if you are going to judge an individual based strictly on his choice in clothing, his occupation or how he presents himself you may miss out on some interesting conversations and relationships.

Years ago I was into the punk scene but usually did not dress the part. A few weeks after securing good employment in another city I died my hair purple for the hell of it. Suddenly people treated my like a completely different person. The clerk at 7-11 would call me dude and talk to me as though we were best friends where he never said two words to me prior to that. People at work told me that it is hard to trust somebody with purple hair with tens of millions in equipment. It was very interesting how changing that one aspect of my physical appearance had an effect on all relationships. Sorry to be so far off topic. I judge people based on their appearance and the first sentence out of their mouth. I try not to- but I do- and I judge harshly. Studies have shown that we all do and I am of the opinion that somebody who sees themselves as being the only one dressed properly are more prone to this judgement.

A couple of posts above this is a picture of some students dressed in a manner that most of us would not dress. After the picture was the caption that seeing it made him not wish to reside on this planet. Do you imagine that the poster would ever form a relationship- a friendship with anyone dressed in such a manner? Is it only the cloths that make him no longer wish to reside here or all that he imagines that it implies about those dressed in such a manner? I would bet that it is all the things he believes it says about those individuals above and beyond that he no longer wishes to reside on a planet where people wear colours together that are mismatched...

[Walker]

I'm kind of envious of you guys that get to dress up for your work. I like to dress up. But that's where my envy stops, i love working on the high seas and don't think i'm fit for a land job anymore. I'm trying to build up more of my dress clothes for the Mason's Lodge and Church. That's about as far as my need for dress clothes go. Working as an Engineer on an ATB the most i can do is wear the Dickies or the Red Kaps and a button down "mechanic" shirt. I also love hair creams so i can always go with the Greaser look. Great thread by the way.

[rob_NH]

Whoa! ... slow down there, Charlie.

There's a heck of a lot less "judgemental" in this thread than you seem to think. No one is suggesting that an auto mechanic show up for work in a 3-piece suit ... if someone has done that, and I missed it ... please point me to the post and I'll gladly join you in saying that guy's silly.

But is there anything wrong with guys who work an office job ... who never have to get dirty, who never have to sweat, who probably do nothing more strenuous than put another bottle on top of the water cooler ... taking some pride in their appearance?

Of course guys who work a hard, grimy job should dress the part ... but even there I bet you'll agree there's still "dressing well" and "not giving a d##n", right? You don't just wear any old crap to work "coz I might get dirty" ... no, you wear decent-looking work clothes.

... right?

I work in an office. I wear cargo shorts and polo shirts all summer. I still take some pride in my appearance. I shower, keep my hair trimmed weekly, and shave and shower every day. I eat whole foods and avoid grains and refined sugar, alcohol, drugs and tobacco. I try to portray a look of health and comfort. Though my look is casual, I do not think it means it is less than a VP wearing a suit. I am a PhD working with other PhDs. We're an odd bunch. We don't meet with clients often (when we do we wear suits) and there is no reason not to be comfortable every day for me. Even though I don't crawl thropugh duct work, I don't see the value in dressing up if I don't find the clothes comfortable. There are definitely those in this thread who have denigrated this casual uniform that is so common in offices, and those that feel more comfortable when dressed up.

I have a very good friend who loves dressing in suits, and he loves taking them off and putting on comfortable clothes after about 5-6 hours. I prefer to just start as comfortable. There is room for all kinds in this world, and I assure you, those who are judging me for my appearance hold no sway in my mind. I am a rock star in my job, and that is where I draw my self esteem in the workplace. We all have our priorities and value systems. I see no need to judge others for theirs, and hate when I am judged for mine.

[rob_NH]

Yes and no. If I know that I have a meeting scheduled I try to wear clean cloths. In two weeks myself and two other guys will be tearing a piece of equipment apart for a rebuild. I will likely take the hydraulic rams off for a rebuild and will end up covered in fluid. It will be disassembled and I have a company coming in to sandblast it. After that we will be spraying a high performance Cloverdale paint that the public cannot buy. If I avoid the hydraulic fluid the paint will ruin anything that I am wearing. That day I will be in stained, torn, old, dirty shirt and jeans. That day I will not wear any old crap... I will wear the oldest and rattiest that I own. Should I pass you on the street I will provide a prime example of all that is wrong with society and how little people care for their appearance.

I suppose, perhaps that my take on this thread is different. The mechanic in a three piece suit came from the first page. I have no doubt that the poster was not implying that the mechanic should dress up (it was more what the sales team wears.) My question was honest- and not based strictly on ones choice in clothing. I am willing to bet that a salesman has very little to do with the staff in the shop and makes an effort to avoid them. It is a scenario that I have seen played out over and over where people decide that they belong in a certain circle and exclude those who do not fit. To be fair, if I were on a mechanics forum I would ask the same of the mechanic- no doubt they avoid the front office staff as well; it is a two way street on that count. I am simply pointing out that if you are going to judge an individual based strictly on his choice in clothing, his occupation or how he presents himself you may miss out on some interesting conversations and relationships.

Years ago I was into the punk scene but usually did not dress the part. A few weeks after securing good employment in another city I died my hair purple for the hell of it. Suddenly people treated my like a completely different person. The clerk at 7-11 would call me dude and talk to me as though we were best friends where he never said two words to me prior to that. People at work told me that it is hard to trust somebody with purple hair with tens of millions in equipment. It was very interesting how changing that one aspect of my physical appearance had an effect on all relationships. Sorry to be so far off topic. I judge people based on their appearance and the first sentence out of their mouth. I try not to- but I do- and I judge harshly. Studies have shown that we all do and I am of the opinion that somebody who sees themselves as being the only one dressed properly are more prone to this judgement.

A couple of posts above this is a picture of some students dressed in a manner that most of us would not dress. After the picture was the caption that seeing it made him not wish to reside on this planet. Do you imagine that the poster would ever form a relationship- a friendship with anyone dressed in such a manner? Is it only the cloths that make him no longer wish to reside here or all that he imagines that it implies about those dressed in such a manner? I would bet that it is all the things he believes it says about those individuals above and beyond that he no longer wishes to reside on a planet where people wear colours together that are mismatched...

From '92 to '98 I was a purple hired bassist in a punk rock band, and held a degree in mathematics. I was judged wrong in all circles. I overcame that judgement in most. Now I am too balding to try and pull off the ring of purple hair, but if I had a full head, I'd go blue in a heart beat. Then I'd be the pathetic 40-something with blue hair and a PhD. Most would continue to misjudge me, but I might do it. They never had a good blue back in the 90s, and it was the color I always wanted.

To be fair, I'm like the honey badger. I don't care. I am great at selling myself and my very specialized and in demand skill set. This can overcome the judgement if you are smart or talented. I was self employed for a little while in '98-'01. Went in to pitch my services to a conservative group of guys in a suit. Showed up so poorly dressed, the receptionist almost threw me out. I landed the deal, and my rate were higher than the local standards.

[djm]

From '92 to '98 I was a purple hired bassist in a punk rock band, and held a degree in mathematics. I was judged wrong in all circles. I overcame that judgement in most. Now I am too balding to try and pull off the ring of purple hair, but if I had a full head, I'd go blue in a heart beat. Then I'd be the pathetic 40-something with blue hair and a PhD. Most would continue to misjudge me, but I might do it. They never had a good blue back in the 90s, and it was the color I always wanted.

You are just a little ahead of me in age, but we both suffer from the same problem. Just last week I was bemoaning the fact that there is no way I could pull off a mohawk anymore. I have no idea why I suddenly had this urge (suffering from middle age?) but it would be a thick strip in the back, not too bad at the front and completely missing in the middle.

I do not know that I can claim to be a rock star in my field (I do not know if I am really even in demand.) What I do know is that I am damn good at my job, would not be easily replaced and would not be fired for my hair style. I just wish I had the hair to do it... Birthday #35 is fast approaching and my follicles have make it abundantly clear that they plan or retiring before I do.

[Doc4]

Yes and no. If I know that I have a meeting scheduled I try to wear clean cloths. In two weeks myself and two other guys will be tearing a piece of equipment apart for a rebuild. I will likely take the hydraulic rams off for a rebuild and will end up covered in fluid. It will be disassembled and I have a company coming in to sandblast it. After that we will be spraying a high performance Cloverdale paint that the public cannot buy. If I avoid the hydraulic fluid the paint will ruin anything that I am wearing. That day I will be in stained, torn, old, dirty shirt and jeans. That day I will not wear any old crap... I will wear the oldest and rattiest that I own. Should I pass you on the street I will provide a prime example of all that is wrong with society and how little people care for their appearance.

Hey, I have ratty old "painting clothes" too. In cases like that, the rattier the better. Paint stains, holes from bonfire cinders, assorted rips and tears ... and dirt that just won't come out. But I wouldn't wear them unless I was actually "doing" the dirty work. If you gotta run to the store for an extra can of the special Cloverdale paint under the counter nudge nudge wink wink, I don't expect you to get changed ... I wouldn't. If you are done and you decide to go to Boston Pizza for dinner, and I'm at the next table, I don't really mind unless I can smell the paint &c.

For me it's not the end of the world, I'm not wanting to be on Mars, and I don't think you're worse than Hitler just because you are wearing dirty clothes. Not that you get a free pass to wear whatever you want, but really any judgement I make is pretty minimal just based on clothing.

I suppose, perhaps that my take on this thread is different. The mechanic in a three piece suit came from the first page. I have no doubt that the poster was not implying that the mechanic should dress up (it was more what the sales team wears.) My question was honest- and not based strictly on ones choice in clothing. I am willing to bet that a salesman has very little to do with the staff in the shop and makes an effort to avoid them. It is a scenario that I have seen played out over and over where people decide that they belong in a certain circle and exclude those who do not fit. To be fair, if I were on a mechanics forum I would ask the same of the mechanic- no doubt they avoid the front office staff as well; it is a two way street on that count. I am simply pointing out that if you are going to judge an individual based strictly on his choice in clothing, his occupation or how he presents himself you may miss out on some interesting conversations and relationships.

You are right that we all make judgements based on first impressions ... appearance, behaviour, and so forth. That's not "bad", IMHO, so long as we take the time to remember that they are only first impressions and we need to keep digging deeper.

Given the importance of first impressions, however, shouldn't we be well advised to try to make good first impressions with others?

[KodiakAttack]

Does anyone have any sources for quality, yet somewhat inexpensive good looking garb? I'd like to start changing up my wardrobe, classic 60's casual is the best i can describe. A hint of New England, with button up shirts that look appropriate with rolled up sleeves, classy yet not fancy shoes.. something I can wear for work or play. I live in Southern California if that helps anyone. I wish I knew how else to describe what I'm looking for. I'm probably no help at all to anyone remotely willing to help me with suggestions

[Deltaboy]

It depends on your job and the expectations of your Boss. We have a dress shirt and slacks Monday to Thursday and Jeans on Friday. No shorts are allowed. No holes are allowed either. When I was a General Contractor I wore Sears Carpenter Jeans , Lace up work boots in cold and wet weather and tennis shoes in hot and dry. I work Dickies or Sears Mens Work shirts short and long sleaved and Carharrt Zip up hoodies in cool weather and Sears Craftsman Work Jacket in Cold weather.