Unusual Pocket Edition and Questions

Snargle · Jul 29, 2012

I scored a nice-looking Gillette Pocket Edition (plain silver-plated case, tapered "Shell" handle) the other day on eBay, and the razor arrived on Friday. All looked fairly normal until I started examining the head. It turns out there is a machined, silver-plated, metal shim included with the head, labeled "D. Petard Bté S.G.D.G." A Google search revealed that D. Petard was a French company that had a 1927 patent on a razor using a similar shim. The shim and head all look like they were an original part of the razor. Included in the blade case is a packet of Kiriki blades, also manufactured in France. There are no logos or text on the razor, other than a serial number "C 9325" on the base plate.

Does anyone know anything about this razor and its origin? Is it a Frankenrazor assembled from different sources or could it possibly a French variation of the Pocket Edition?

I'm tempted to try out this razor...after all, that's why I bought it! My question is does the shim go under or over the razor blade? I'm thinking that placing it under the blade would make this thing shave super-aggressive. Is my assumption correct.

72plymsatellite · Jul 29, 2012

ur assumption is correct. it is meant to change the aggrassiveness so putting it on top of the blade would do nothing. as far as a frankenrazor im not sure. i dont know enogh about these really old razors. the date codes in the shavewiki all have a letter and a 5 digit number while this one has 4 digits???? someone will come along and help u very soon please hold............. "elevator music starts"

Snargle · Jul 29, 2012

An additional piece of information: The case has no engraved patent information on the bottom like other ABC Pocket Edition cases have...just a smooth, slight-rounded bottom.

bakerbarber · Jul 29, 2012

It looks to me that the last person who used this pocket edition razor owned a shim and the last brand of blades they bought were KIRIKI.

?

April Dawn · Jul 29, 2012

I have several pocket editions and I am stumped. The shim seems to be added by the owner as well as the blades . I have the same blades that was included with one of my sets. The serial number also has be confused..as most pocket editions are DBor E

Here are some well written posts http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...n-Company-Pocket-Edition-Sets-Part-One-Razors
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...on-Company-Pocket-Edition-Sets-Part-Two-Cases

I would suggest to post and ask on one of them and perhaps someone can identify that serial number for you. Either way it is a beautiful find!

mblakele · Jul 29, 2012

I think the least hypothesis is that the shim was not original to the set.

If the "C" is a USA serial number, then the case is probably earlier than the razor. I say that because the diamond logo on the case looks like it was stuck on after the case was made, which is typical of the years when the diamond logo was a recent innovation: maybe late 1908, more likely 1909.

Or the "C" serial number might be a Canada variation, which could fit better with the logo on the case and perhaps with the French-made shim too. The folks in Montreal were making pocket editions as early as 1909, and they seemed to have their own ideas about serial numbers.

Snargle said:
An additional piece of information: The case has no engraved patent information on the bottom like other ABC Pocket Edition cases have...just a smooth, slight-rounded bottom.

That also fits with the idea that it is Canadian. The early Montreal pocket editions suffered from a lack of skilled workmen in certain areas, so they sometimes went out with plain handles, plain cases, or other variations.

alex2363 · Jul 29, 2012

mblakele said:
I think the least hypothesis is that the shim was not original to the set.

If the "C" is a USA serial number, then the case is probably earlier than the razor. I say that because the diamond logo on the case looks like it was stuck on after the case was made, which is typical of the years when the diamond logo was a recent innovation: maybe late 1908, more likely 1909.

Or the "C" serial number might be a Canada variation, which could fit better with the logo on the case and perhaps with the French-made shim too. The folks in Montreal were making pocket editions as early as 1909, and they seemed to have their own ideas about serial numbers.

That also fits with the idea that it is Canadian. The early Montreal pocket editions suffered from a lack of skilled workmen in certain areas, so they sometimes went out with plain handles, plain cases, or other variations.

Great theory you and Porter always have great insight and resources to come up with great answers or theories, I think that its the best scenario at this point. My theory was it could've been the advertisement Patent conflict result of the Clark razor blade company. They advertised the Clark razors as able to fit Gillette razors by their manufacturing the the design of the head to fit Gillette. Gillette capitalized on the design after the patent conflict. Here is the NOX-All which looks like a Pocket ED.

patent design

MacDaddy · Jul 29, 2012

I would also write the shim off as nothing more than a later addition that either the original owner picked up or someone else along the way lumped in with the set.

The head looks proper for an ABC Pocket Editions and the serial number is in a perfectly normal range for an ABC set. The glued-in logo patch was perfectly common on these Pocket Editions for much longer than the other sets, so I wouldn't say that necessarily meant anything on its own. The only thing that doesn't fit there is the lack of the patent dates/numbers inscription on the back of the case.

The possibility of it being a Canadian set was my first thought, there, too. But that's where the serial number bugs me a little bit. The Canadian plant seems to have regularly prefixed their low numbers with zeroes (e.g., "C009325" rather than "C 9325") where it was the American plant that left the leading space blank, like this one. I'm also not entirely sure that I've ever seen an ABC-handled Canadian set, though I wouldn't put too much weight on just that.

Another possibility is that someone put a 1911 ABC Pocket Edition razor into a slightly later case thinking they were making a matched set. I have seen quite a number of ball-end Old Type Pocket Edition sets with four-rivet cases like this one, as opposed to the later two-rivet style, that were also missing the inscription on the back.

alex2363 · Jul 29, 2012

MacDaddy said:
I would also write the shim off as nothing more than a later addition that either the original owner picked up or someone else along the way lumped in with the set.

The head looks proper for an ABC Pocket Editions and the serial number is in a perfectly normal range for an ABC set. The glued-in logo patch was perfectly common on these Pocket Editions for much longer than the other sets, so I wouldn't say that necessarily meant anything on its own. The only thing that doesn't fit there is the lack of the patent dates/numbers inscription on the back of the case.

The possibility of it being a Canadian set was my first thought, there, too. But that's where the serial number bugs me a little bit. The Canadian plant seems to have regularly prefixed their low numbers with zeroes (e.g., "C009325" rather than "C 9325") where it was the American plant that left the leading space blank, like this one. I'm also not entirely sure that I've ever seen an ABC-handled Canadian set, though I wouldn't put too much weight on just that.

Another possibility is that someone put a 1911 ABC Pocket Edition razor into a slightly later case thinking they were making a matched set. I have seen quite a number of ball-end Old Type Pocket Edition sets with four-rivet cases like this one, as opposed to the later two-rivet style, that were also missing the inscription on the back.

what about these designs?

MacDaddy · Jul 29, 2012

alex2363 said:
what about these designs?

Not sure what you mean. What about them? They appear in Petard's razor patent, and appear to have had the purpose of providing a gap under the blade to prevent clogging, but I'm not clear on what you're wondering about here.

alex2363 · Jul 29, 2012

MacDaddy said:
Not sure what you mean. What about them? They appear in Petard's razor patent, and appear to have had the purpose of providing a gap under the blade to prevent clogging, but I'm not clear on what you're wondering about here.

I never seen these on pocket editions...also his patent is after 1927, did they make those
pocket editions til then? I thought stopped at 1920

Sled Dog · Jul 29, 2012

alex2363 said:
I never seen these on pocket editions...also his patent is after 1927, did they make those
pocket editions til then? I thought stopped at 1920

Thats the shim that was more than likely added to the set at a later date...

MacDaddy · Jul 29, 2012

Sled Dog said:
Thats the shim that was more than likely added to the set at a later date...

Yes, this.

BBrad · Jul 29, 2012

Interesting note on Petard's razor - it was designed with three different guard plates with shorter teeth to be used with blades that had been re-sharpened to the point of being not as wide as they once were! Also, Petard's design was quite different from Gillette's, with the similarity being that Petard used Gillette's three-hole blade.

This is not a Petard razor - just a Gillette ABC with one part of a Petard included, either by accident or user modification.

Interesting!

Snargle · Jul 29, 2012

Thanks for the feedback and information, guys and gal! So it looks like I have a somewhat non-standard ABC pocket edition with an aftermarket shim added at a later date. It'll be a nice addition to my collection. Since I'm very happy with the shave I got from a non-shimmed pocket edition, I probably won't try shaving with the shim...unless I'm feeling very brave some day!

I'll just give it a nice cleanup and light polishing and enjoy a beautiful razor set!

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