It's official, I am out of style

[Doc4]

I wouldn't take fashion advice from an online magazine article about men's fashion trends. That's how you end up with a closet full of baggy jeans or skinny jeans, square toed shoes (as opposed to the chisel toe) and Ed Hardy t-shirts.

Like a broken watch, The Internet is correct about something twice a day ... but unless you have your own knowledge already, you'll never know for sure what it is right about, or why.

Exactly!

Staying in style is a tough goal to meet, unless one is willing to keep buying new stuff all the time, based on the whims of clothing manufacturers. That does not seem like a very worthy goal to me, but to each his own. Let'd face it, unless one really follows this stuff and is willing to replace wardrobe frequently, and probably does not shop at standard department stores, one is never going to keep up, anyway. For instance, buying the latest at Macey's is not going to keep one up with either the GQ or the hipster crowds, or even the college kids!

I think part of the idea is to not get too radical in the first instance. I could probably pick out any number of the 11 points.But I would say that the standard American necktie these day is 3.25 " wide. Whatever powers that be tried to make a much skinner tie the standard, but they were unsuccessful. However, I think they were successful in killing off any new purcahses of ties wider than 3.25." I think one can still wear a 3.5" tie. In fact doing so makes it look like one has actually worn a tie for longer than starting a year ago. I do not think one wants to wear just 3.5" ties. That would make it look like one never buys new clothes or is oblivious when they do!

I own and wear a fair number of skinner ties. But to me it is something of a statement to wear them. They are not inappropriate. They are not, however, "standard" either. At least something narrower than 2.75" is not.

On ties, the 'fashionable' width changes from time to time. ... just like any other element of fashion. Whether you think this is a cynical attempt by clothing manufacturers to always be selling clothes to people who already own enough clothes, or whether it's our innate desire to stay "fresh", "new" and "ahead of he crowd" ... Chicken, meet Egg; you two can sort out who comes first ... Fashion celebrates novelty and change

Style, on the other hand, can be seen as "what actually looks good". You can pick out bits of style in the extremes of fashion, but more often, style lives in (don't call it "traditional", "conservative", "middle of the road" ... you are missing the point) timelessness. Well, almost timeless; eventually (like it's cousin Entropy) Time always wins. I don't care how stylish the best dressed man in London was, circa 1712, if he tried wearing that now it'd just be costume.

Anyhow ... if you read enough (internet or otherwise), if you learn enough, observe enough, experiment enough ... you develop your own sense of style. And then you know (hopefully) which of the current "fashion rules" to follow, which to ignore, and which to do your own twist to.


***


Neckties. I like 7cm width. (Sorry, I hate metric too, but most of my recent tie purchases have been from Drakes & other places that use the metric, and 7cm happens to be my sweet spot.) That's just a hair under 3", fwiw. I know it's a bit skinnier than what is popular today ... although far wider than the skinny ties that were all the rage a few years ago ... but I like that look. I could live with 8cm well enough, but would never go narrower, oddly enough.

We all remember how necktie widths have changed over time. Those of us old enough will remember the dramatic changes from the mid 60s super-narrow to the mid 70s super-wide ... things aren't usually that dramatic, but still.

Unless one wants to buy new, "with-it" ties every few years, one is better off to find timelessly classic tie widths and patterns, and stick to that ... style.

[Rorpen86]

When I read this article it reminded me of one thing I truly wanted to try avoiding. Wearing the same once trendy and popular item for the next 30 years. I started my law enforcement career 8 years ago and whenever I would meet my coworkers outside of work it was pretty obvious when each of them started their law enforcement career simply based on the type of clothes they were wearing. It is surprising how many cops still have and wear Bill Cosby sweaters. Wearing a uniform for work means I never have to think about what clothes I wear and as a result I have little reason to buy more clothes.

This article just reinforced that timeless clothes are the way to go.

[Krona Kruiser]

Timeless clothes:
-well-fitting white dress shirt
-well-fitting navy, charcoal, and khaki dress pants
-well-fitting midnight blue sports coat with natural shoulders
-versatile reversible dark-brown/black belt with classic thin buckle (match belt color with shoe color, it's an oldie but goodie tip)
-v-neck sweater in thin cotton or cashmere
-dark-brown and black dress shoes
-repp tie, foulard tie, moderately bright tie
Casual:
-dark indigo straight fit jeans
-well-fitting polo shirts
-clean canvas sneakers
-madras shorts
-boat shoes
My style leans towards Ivy/Trad but these are items that have been around for decades. Did I mention that fit is key?
Also, accessories like glasses, hats, and watches can really spruce up a basic outfit.
Why do I know this or care?
My mom was a seamstress on the side and my dad learned how to dress in the service. He was a big man but looked well-put together due his clothes fitting just right. Also, I'm a teacher who does not agree with the "dressing-down" that's permeated the classrooms during the last decade. That attitude has washed down to other aspects in the profession.....that's another issue. I wear a tie about 3 times a week. My mom always said, "you're dress sharp, you feel sharp." It's a personal thing and no, I don't look down on people that like dressing casual most of the time, it's a personal preference.

[Robert45]

Agreed...dress sharp, feel sharp. That is also why I shave with a DE and shine my dress shoes almost every day. It makes me feel sharp and confident all day. (Wasn't there an old Gillete Blue Blade TV ad about feeling sharp? Seems like Gilliete sponsored the fights on Fri or Sat nights in the 50's)

[goatee]

I almost dropped my monocle and top hat when I read that!

i havent laughed like that in a while!!!!

but seriously,,, velcro wallet? whos the target audience here? seventh graders?

[cb91710]

1 - Square toed shoes: No. My engineer boots for riding are my only square toes... I didn't even have them in the 90s!
2 - Jeans I've been walking on: No. My jeans have always been a snug enough cut.
3 - Really wide clown ties: Again, I have a variety, but have never had anything wider than 3".
4 - Velcro Wallet: No. Haven't had one of those since the early 80s.
5 - Wrap around sunglasses: For riding only. General wear shades have been Aviators for a couple of years now. Wore "Gatorz" aluminum wraps until 2009.
6 - Steve Madden style shoes: Nope. Dress shoes, riding boots, work boots, or Sperry Topsiders. I do like the look of Desert Boots
7 - Billowy dress shirts: Guilty.
8 - Velcro sandals: I've never liked them, even when I wore them. SWMBO bought them so I had to wear them.
9 - Wide leg boot cut: Levis 501
10 - Baggy cargo shorts: Haven't worn shorts in over 10 years except for "Board shorts" at the beach.
11 - Long sideburns: Muaahahahahah......

[Rushman2112]

Sideburns - pass. Bradley Wiggins didn't get this memo either.

Indeed: if they are good enough for the Champs Elysees, they must be OK!

[Doc4]

11 - Long sideburns: Muaahahahahah......

[RUSHd]

I can't disagree more with the traditional dress shirt comment. Slim cut shirts work if you are slim. Athletic cuts work if you are athletic. Otherwise, you look like a fool.

[The Knize]

Like a broken watch, The Internet is correct about something twice a day ... but unless you have your own knowledge already, you'll never know for sure what it is right about, or why.



On ties, the 'fashionable' width changes from time to time. ... just like any other element of fashion. Whether you think this is a cynical attempt by clothing manufacturers to always be selling clothes to people who already own enough clothes, or whether it's our innate desire to stay "fresh", "new" and "ahead of he crowd" ... Chicken, meet Egg; you two can sort out who comes first ... Fashion celebrates novelty and change

Style, on the other hand, can be seen as "what actually looks good". You can pick out bits of style in the extremes of fashion, but more often, style lives in (don't call it "traditional", "conservative", "middle of the road" ... you are missing the point) timelessness. Well, almost timeless; eventually (like it's cousin Entropy) Time always wins. I don't care how stylish the best dressed man in London was, circa 1712, if he tried wearing that now it'd just be costume.

Anyhow ... if you read enough (internet or otherwise), if you learn enough, observe enough, experiment enough ... you develop your own sense of style. And then you know (hopefully) which of the current "fashion rules" to follow, which to ignore, and which to do your own twist to.


***


Neckties. I like 7cm width. (Sorry, I hate metric too, but most of my recent tie purchases have been from Drakes & other places that use the metric, and 7cm happens to be my sweet spot.) That's just a hair under 3", fwiw. I know it's a bit skinnier than what is popular today ... although far wider than the skinny ties that were all the rage a few years ago ... but I like that look. I could live with 8cm well enough, but would never go narrower, oddly enough.

We all remember how necktie widths have changed over time. Those of us old enough will remember the dramatic changes from the mid 60s super-narrow to the mid 70s super-wide ... things aren't usually that dramatic, but still.

Unless one wants to buy new, "with-it" ties every few years, one is better off to find timelessly classic tie widths and patterns, and stick to that ... style.

I did some research on tie widths--my own and "generally"--in the meantime. Not enough time to report fully, perhaps, but the results were interesting, at least to me. Bottom line, I would say there is more variation than I expected, and no support at all for the internet article guys statement that "3.5 inches is just gigantic." Ben Silver, for instance, says its ties are 3.5 inches. Which actually seems odd. Most of my Ben Silver ties seem to be more like 3.25 inches. Odd that BS ties would get wider over the past few years. I think of BS as a very trad, very unchaning shop. Drake's describes the 7 cm width as "narrow ties." 8 cm seems to the standard "regular tie" width. (Nice tie maker, Drake's, BTW. I am in awe of your wardrobe!)

My ties vary more widely than I thought. And there are ties I own that are 3.75 inches that I would wear. Perhaps I am influenced by move to narrow ties that was attempted, it seems to me by certain segments of the industry or public, as you, D4, say, but I think my favorite width right now is in that 7 to 8 cm range--just over or just under 3.0 inches wide. I might tend to go slightly wider than 3.0, but not to 3.25 for my very favorite, and you might go sligtly under 3.0, but that width is pleasing to me my eye without looking at all radical!

Wow, Drake's!

But my main point being there is no reason to toss out all one's ties that are wider than 2.5 inches or whatever the internet article was really suggesting, and 3.5 does no look gigantic, yet!

[Steve V.]

O.K., I still have sideburns and wear cargo shorts but other than that I'm ready for my GQ photo shoot.

Steve

[shaveitoff]

According to this article I'm not doing too badly at all. My only fashion crime is that I still have a pair of square toed shoes.

For this summer I decided to ditch the cargo shorts. I had been rocking the cargos for the last 3 or 4 years but it kind of hit me that unless I'm on a hike and really need the extra pockets they only add a lot of bulky extra material to the thigh. So the fashion world agrees with me. LOL.

[The Knize]

Meant to say earlier that judging by a recent trip to Italy, sideburns of a specific type maybe coming back. I have not seen any evidence here yet, and it is true that Italians--espcially Romans--seem to be able to look more put together while doing very little different than anyone else.

I do not understand the internet articles reference to not "doing sideburns straight across." I would say that very short sideburns are consistent with a certain trad or even Ivy-type look. I have not noticed an overall shift to very short sideburns and had not noticed longer sideburns being in style for a time either, except with a goat and a stache, but that is another thing entirely.

[Luc]

Whatever they say, I keep the sideburns!

[PugslyCat]

My shoe size is 8 1/2 EEEE. The square toed shoes go with the square feet.

Fitted dress shirts? Not for us over weight and out of shape guys. Maybe when I lose some weight.

[Doc4]

Wow, Drake's!

But my main point being there is no reason to toss out all one's ties that are wider than 2.5 inches or whatever the internet article was really suggesting, and 3.5 does no look gigantic, yet!

Yeah, Drake's is nice. ... "are nice" ... Drake's is nice, and their ties are nice ... you know ...

... oh, and they're having a sale on now.

Quoted from "the philosophy of Michael Drake", about ties ...

Next the tie. The tie is important not only because it's so much the focus of attention, but because it's more symbolic than utilitarian. The best ties are hand made, never stitched by machine. You have a suit made in the round, and so the tie should be three-dimensional as well.Avoid extremes: no wider than nine centimetres and no narrower than seven. Eight will look right on any occasion.
The pattern should not be overly designed, with too many colours, or too shiny; although solid satin in navy, grey or purple is fine for the evening, for a more formal look. The time-honoured tradition of lighter coloured ties in the morning, a little darker in the afternoon and darker still in the evening is hard to beat.
Seventy percent of the ties we produce at Drake’s of London are shades of blue. It’s always a good starting point.
There are only two knots worth considering, the four in hand and the half Windsor, the second also being a good standby if the tie is too long or a slightly fuller knot is required.
Best not to use the loop or ‘keeper’ at the back of the tie, to remain nonchalant. It’s ok to see part of the tail. Avoid a look that’s too stiff and rigid – think the Duke of Windsor or Snr. Gianni Agnelli rather than your local bank manager, whose ties will often look ironed flat.
Wearing a tie that is either too long or too short is another give away. In an ideal world the tie should reach the top of the trouser waistband with both the front and tail finishing at the same length. If this can't be achieved, better to have the tail slightly longer than the front. Often the rise of the trousers can cause the tie to be the wrong length.

The one thing I'll say is that getting the two ends of the tie to line up ... and meet at the top of the belt buckle ... dang that's hard and almost impossible if you are over a certain height and unwilling to buy bespoke/long ties.

But I like his "7-9 is good, 8 never wrong" rule for tie widths ... and the "own a good blue tie" thing is something I see mentioned only occasionally, but by those really in the know. Of course, the other thing to remember about tie width is that a larger man (going more by width than height) will look better with a thicker tie, and a skinny guy does better with a skinny tie.

A lot of ties are made "of the time" rather than "timeless" ... that meaning, most ties from say 1972 will, to today's eyes, scream "1972!" and ditto ties from 1962, 1982 ... whenever. Being the "accent piece" they tend to reflect the "spirit of the age" or at least the "fashion" themes of the time ... and so many of those ties tend to look quite dated soon after "their time" is passed. On the other hand, there are some ties that are made in a more timeless way, and these can be worn well into the future. A 4" tie or a 2" tie could well fall into that second category, and those I'd be more than happy to see kept and worn decade after decade.

My shoe size is 8 1/2 EEEE. The square toed shoes go with the square feet.

Fitted dress shirts? Not for us over weight and out of shape guys. Maybe when I lose some weight.

#1 rule of shoes ... wear the ones that FIT.

The rule can be applied to dress shirts too ... it's not so imperative (a little off & your shoes will kill your feet ... a little off for a shirt and it's kind of unsightly) but still a good idea.

[duotone]

I matched 4, more stylish than I thought. I expected to be closer to 8!

[cb91710]

I can't disagree more with the traditional dress shirt comment. Slim cut shirts work if you are slim. Athletic cuts work if you are athletic. Otherwise, you look like a fool.

Especially when the buttons start to get stressed.

Oh wait! That's what the wide tie is for!

[rockviper]

I think there were only 2 days when I wasn't out of style...... birthday and wedding day (didn't have much choice in my attire for either occasion)

[DE_Dude]

My shoe size is 8 1/2 EEEE. The square toed shoes go with the square feet

I also have a wide foot problem (but not as wide as yours). I made another thread about it so this one wouldn't get derailed!!

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...-for-wide-feet