Honing advise needed: 1 layer vs 2 layers of tape

[gnoils]

Hi all,

I tried to hone a dovo #300 with no luck. Below are some picture of the very blade.

I got this blade from ebay and from the look of it has rather wide hone wear, it looks quite even across the blade but it has a slight smile. MMT confirmed this but shows rather poor heel contact on face of the blade.

I tried to hone it the other night with mixed results depends on how many layers of tape I used. Btw, I only honed it on 1k to see if I could establish a bevel.

With 2 layers of tape, bevel formed pretty quickly and passed TNT pretty well.

Since I was thinking of using 1 layer of tape on all my razors to avoid confusion, I killed the edge and rehone with 1 layer of tape. I spent 45 minutes and could only get the toe and heel sharp, the belly just wouldn't get sharp.

So I'm looking for a shed of light in this frustrating tunnel and hope some of you can help. my questions are:
1. Do you try to use only 1 layer of tape on all your razors or am I just being OCD?
2. Why did 2 layers of tape get the bevel up quite quickly but not with 1 layer?
3. What did I do wrong?

Thank you for your help.

Cheers,
Sy

[Legion]

Personally, I don't use tape, except on full wedges, to make my life easier.

If that were my blade I would just ditch the tape and let the honewear happen, damn the torpedoes. Why add another variable? As much as I hate to agree with Slash (lapping film has no mojo!!), razors are designed to wear on the spine as the edge width decreases.

Ditch the tape, then see what the bevel looks like. I'm betting that the fact that the last owner used no tape is what is causing your difficulties.

[Doc226]

The more layers of tape you use the easier it is to get to the edge of the bevel, of course this means that every time you hone you MUST use the same layers of tape. Problem with using multiple layers of tape (aside from bevel angle-I'll leave that to Slash) is that tape is compressible. If apply more pressure when honing you will not be in contact with the very edge. I would suggest no tape or at most 1 layer of tape. It actually takes some honing to remove the bevel made by the tape.



The first picture show the bevel angle when honed without tape. In the second picture (angles exaggerated) you can see how much metal needs to be removed before you get to the edge of the edge. The more layers of tape when honed on the first time, the more time it takes to remove the metal to get to the true edge.

[gnoils]

I see, so I just need to remove more metal to get the bevel to meet. Maybe I was impatient, but I thought I spent ages on the 1k. Although I did notice that there wasn't much swarf even on 1k. I use nortons btw.

[Legion]

I see, so I just need to remove more metal to get the bevel to meet. Maybe I was impatient, but I thought I spent ages on the 1k. Although I did notice that there wasn't much swarf even on 1k. I use nortons btw.

Same process, regardless of the hone. Sometimes, if the razor is a little out of wack, you need to spend some time so both the spine and edge can "bed down" together, so to speak. And don't be afraid to torque the blade to put more pressure on the edge in the initial stages of bevel setting. How much pressure to apply is one of those things that is hard to explain, and you have to learn by practice and experience.

[gnoils]

So I just made my life more difficult by putting that second of layer in the first place. I have this odd ill feel with wide bevel and hone wear, but I might just try honing with no tape on this one.

Previously I have tried to hone a small genco with no tape on a coticule, I have succesfully honed the blade with 1 tape on the nortons. Took me a long time honing with no success and I reverted back to 1 layer of tape and it's all good again. But I just didnt know it took quite abit of honing to 'bed' the edge back down with the spine.

Thanks for your advises David and Alfredo. I will try again when I get the chance next and report back the result.

Sy

[Doc226]

I used to have a set or Nortons, the 1K is actually a pretty slow cutter, my DMT 1200 is much faster.

[gnoils]

I find that it glazes up after using it for a while. Btw, the illustrations did help, thanks for that.

I used to have a set or Nortons, the 1K is actually a pretty slow cutter, my DMT 1200 is much faster.

[Doc226]

I find that it glazes up after using it for a while. Btw, the illustrations did help, thanks for that.

It does, I used to give it a few laps with the DMT before each razor.

[SliceOfLife]

It does, I used to give it a few laps with the DMT before each razor.

What part of your brain was faced with this problem:

I have two hones. One works effectively for the purpose I use it for, one doesn't.

And chose the solution:

I will rub the one which works properly against the one which doesn't, and some of it's magical workiness will transfer and thus I can use the latter for the purpose the former would work for in the first place.

[Doc226]

What part of your brain was faced with this problem:

I have two hones. One works effectively for the purpose I use it for, one doesn't.

And chose the solution:

I will rub the one which works properly against the one which doesn't, and some of it's magical workiness will transfer and thus I can use the latter for the purpose the former would work for in the first place.

The nortons worked. I just did not like them. I did not like soaking, glazing over and most importantly I did no care for the feeling of the edge off them.

[paco664]

I used to have a set or Nortons, the 1K is actually a pretty slow cutter, my DMT 1200 is much faster.

i had a norton 4k8k that once upon a time i thought was a great stone........

it wasn't..... i now think it was a waste of money to buy it.... because i have natural stones that do the same job faster and better.......


and i don't have to lap them every 4 mins....

[jeness]

It is pretty easy in my opinion. If you like hone wear, don't use tape, if you don't, than use one layer. Only one thing is important, stick with one of the two, don't go back and forth.

[Wid]

It is pretty easy in my opinion. If you like hone wear, don't use tape, if you don't, than use one layer. Only one thing is important, stick with one of the two, don't go back and forth.

+1

[Neurotopia]

I've had experiences where a razor seemed to have a previously established bevel on 2 pieces, and I had to drop to the DMT 600 in order to speed things up and reset it. Frustrating as hell when you hone it a couple times on your normal bevel routine, and it just won't work right.

[Krodor]

Lap the hone?

[Kentos]

Since you added so much tape, if you go to no tape, you will need to remove a fair bit of metal to get it back to where it needs to be. I would suggest inking the bevel and taking a few laps to see where the bevel is contacting the hone, and from there decide on how you need to attack the bevel setting. Just take your time and it will all fall into place. Hone wear is not a bad thing, just a result of honing.

It is kinda like taping the bottom of your shoes with layers of duck tape so you don't wear down the sole. Eventually you will wear out the uppers, but have a pristine sole that is little use to you now. All that time you were walking on a layer of duck tape slipping and sliding all around and never fully enjoyed that grippy rubber sole. In hindsight it would have been more fun to fully utilize the shoes as it was intended.

Of course, if you have a pair of $100,000 unicorn hide shoes that you only wear on special occasions, taping the sole wouldn't be a bad idea to maintain its value. But the 50.00 Nike's you use everyday? Tape doesn't make sense.

YMMV

[jeness]

Since you added so much tape, if you go to no tape, you will need to remove a fair bit of metal to get it back to where it needs to be. I would suggest inking the bevel and taking a few laps to see where the bevel is contacting the hone, and from there decide on how you need to attack the bevel setting. Just take your time and it will all fall into place. Hone wear is not a bad thing, just a result of honing.

It is kinda like taping the bottom of your shoes with layers of duck tape so you don't wear down the sole. Eventually you will wear out the uppers, but have a pristine sole that is little use to you now. All that time you were walking on a layer of duck tape slipping and sliding all around and never fully enjoyed that grippy rubber sole. In hindsight it would have been more fun to fully utilize the shoes as it was intended.

Of course, if you have a pair of $100,000 unicorn hide shoes that you only wear on special occasions, taping the sole wouldn't be a bad idea to maintain its value. But the 50.00 Nike's you use everyday? Tape doesn't make sense.

YMMV

Never knew you have your razors only to hone them, and not to shave with them

[gnoils]

Since you added so much tape, if you go to no tape, you will need to remove a fair bit of metal to get it back to where it needs to be. I would suggest inking the bevel and taking a few laps to see where the bevel is contacting the hone, and from there decide on how you need to attack the bevel setting. Just take your time and it will all fall into place. Hone wear is not a bad thing, just a result of honing.

It is kinda like taping the bottom of your shoes with layers of duck tape so you don't wear down the sole. Eventually you will wear out the uppers, but have a pristine sole that is little use to you now. All that time you were walking on a layer of duck tape slipping and sliding all around and never fully enjoyed that grippy rubber sole. In hindsight it would have been more fun to fully utilize the shoes as it was intended.

Of course, if you have a pair of $100,000 unicorn hide shoes that you only wear on special occasions, taping the sole wouldn't be a bad idea to maintain its value. But the 50.00 Nike's you use everyday? Tape doesn't make sense.

YMMV

I like that analogy with shoes. It's just this ocd that I have. :p

[Slash McCoy]

FWIW I don't tape my shoes, either.