Honing advise needed: 1 layer vs 2 layers of tape

**SliceOfLife** · 07-21-2012, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by Doc226

It does, I used to give it a few laps with the DMT before each razor.

What part of your brain was faced with this problem:

I have two hones. One works effectively for the purpose I use it for, one doesn't.

And chose the solution:

I will rub the one which works properly against the one which doesn't, and some of it's magical workiness will transfer and thus I can use the latter for the purpose the former would work for in the first place.

**Doc226** · 07-21-2012, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by SliceOfLife

What part of your brain was faced with this problem:

I have two hones. One works effectively for the purpose I use it for, one doesn't.

And chose the solution:

I will rub the one which works properly against the one which doesn't, and some of it's magical workiness will transfer and thus I can use the latter for the purpose the former would work for in the first place.

The nortons worked. I just did not like them. I did not like soaking, glazing over and most importantly I did no care for the feeling of the edge off them.

**SliceOfLife** · 07-21-2012, 02:35 AM

I know just teasing ya since ya said you had a 1200 dmt and a 1k norton and your solution to the nortons glazing was to lap it with the dmt. It seemed quite circuitous. I'm a bit biased about the 600 and 1200 DMT's though. In my experience they just so ridiculously outclass everything else in that grit range in every imaginable way that I can't imagine owning one and still touching the norton. (If only the EE were as impressive).

**Doc226** · 07-21-2012, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by SliceOfLife

I know just teasing ya since ya said you had a 1200 dmt and a 1k norton and your solution to the nortons glazing was to lap it with the dmt. It seemed quite circuitous. I'm a bit biased about the 600 and 1200 DMT's though. In my experience they just so ridiculously outclass everything else in that grit range in every imaginable way that I can't imagine owning one and still touching the norton. (If only the EE were as impressive).

I get it now. That was a while ago. When I had the nortons I had a coarse DMT plate that I used to lap with. I liked the plate so much I got a fine one as well. My son lapped them to each other and killed them both. They are great for polishing stones but just good for polishing. I have since got the combo 600/1200 DMT and use that ALOT.

**SliceOfLife** · 07-21-2012, 02:55 AM

Yeah the 600/1200 interrupted is what I have. I like the surface feel way way more than the continuous plates I have (325 and 8k), but the small continuous patch they put in for fine tools bothers me because it changes the feel when you hit it. That's really the only fault I can find with it... well unless you care about how it looks. I don't clean mine beyond rinsing it off so all the plastic patches where it locks into the bench are black with oxidized metal shavings that got crammed down in there over the years.

The feedback on that 600 is right up there with a nice coticule. I can visualize the scratch pattern with my eyes closed.

**Pkrankow** · 07-22-2012, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by gnoils

I don't quite understand what you mean by calculating bevel. How do you calculate your bevel?

Get your calipers out and measure the thickness of the spine, then the distance from the edge to the end of the hone wear on the spine. Plug the numbers into your favorite triangle calculator (you know all 3 sides, 2 are the same) and find out the included angle of the blade. It should be about 17 degrees, give or take a few degrees. Tape is used if the angle is much less than 17 degrees to bring the angle to about 17 degrees. (and if the angle is very large, you can tape the edge and hone the spine down some instead.)

Phil

**gnoils** · 07-23-2012, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Pkrankow

Get your calipers out and measure the thickness of the spine, then the distance from the edge to the end of the hone wear on the spine. Plug the numbers into your favorite triangle calculator (you know all 3 sides, 2 are the same) and find out the included angle of the blade. It should be about 17 degrees, give or take a few degrees. Tape is used if the angle is much less than 17 degrees to bring the angle to about 17 degrees. (and if the angle is very large, you can tape the edge and hone the spine down some instead.)

Phil

I didn't know this. Thanks Phil. That's very helpful.

Sy

**Pkrankow** · 07-23-2012, 06:30 AM

I should cite my source.
http://coticule.be/wedges.html

there is a calculator spreadsheet in the margin.

Phil

**honed** · 07-23-2012, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by SliceOfLife

Yeah the 600/1200 interrupted is what I have. I like the surface feel way way more than the continuous plates I have (325 and 8k), but the small continuous patch they put in for fine tools bothers me because it changes the feel when you hit it. That's really the only fault I can find with it... well unless you care about how it looks. I don't clean mine beyond rinsing it off so all the plastic patches where it locks into the bench are black with oxidized metal shavings that got crammed down in there over the years.

The feedback on that 600 is right up there with a nice coticule. I can visualize the scratch pattern with my eyes closed.

Great to see you back Ian!

I think the OP's not hitting the edge of the edge. Grinding away enough metal to cancel out a layer of tape can take a long time on a slow stone.
45 minutes really says nothing on a1K Norton, it's slow to begin with & glazes & clogs after 30 seconds....after that it's useless IMO.

Paint the whole edge with magic marker & have at it with 1 layer of tape. Check the edge after a bunch of laps. If you are hitting the edge all marker all over the edge should be gone.
Otherwise, have at it for as long as it takes. Lap the Norton often & leave the slurry from the lapping on it, that speeds it up a notch. Dont stop until all of the blade shaves armhair with ease & passes the TNT. Then you are ready to move on.

**Pkrankow** · 07-23-2012, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by honed

...

45 minutes really says nothing on a1K Norton, it's slow to begin with & glazes & clogs after 30 seconds....after that it's useless IMO.

...

Norton glaze that badly? Wow. I'm kinda glad I went coticule/chosera.

5 micron lapping film is a cheap bevel setting choice that is about as fast as my chosera 1k.

All the coticule I have used have been fairly fast on yogurt slurry. In fact on light restores that needed edge work I hone with tape then remove the tape and reset the bevel. About 100-400 laps on the coticule, as few as 60 laps on the chosera 100-200 is more normal, for the same amount of work.

Phil