Getting started with a hone

[drathgeb]

I have been searching all over the forum for a general concensus on where to start. I am trying to find the find the perfect stone(s) at a reasonable price. I am very new to straight shaving but have jumped in head first. I have acquired around 20 razors in the last month with only three being shave ready. SlashMcCoy has been very helpful in walking me through the use of lapping films but I want to start getting into stones.
After reading the post about the ULTIMATE coticule I realize I have a lot to learn. I, sadly, was the one who drove the price of the eBay stone in the link to such an appearantly rediculous price. But as my summer employment comes to an end so must my wild spending. What hone is reasonably priced and can I get a bit of mileage out of? I am most specifically looking for something that will quickly set a bevel so I can use the lapping film more efficiently and as I run out of lapping film I would like to use hones instead.
There is just an information overload out here. Please help.

[Legion]

If you want a coticule, talk to Jarrod at The Superior Shave. He is very helpful.

You can do everything with one stone once you have practised with a coticule. It is really a matter of learning the rock. Myself, I make my life easier and I usually use two, a fast big stone for the bevel and 90% of the honing, and then a smaller very slow one for the last 10% of the finishing. Once the razor is sharp, 50x laps on the slow one from time to time keeps it that way.

I also have a bunch of other stones which I have played with, and can serve well for certain specific purposes. But if I was to decide to reduce my collection to the bare essentials, one or two coti's would be what I would choose.

[tomjr]

coti's work well as an all around stone.

[Doc226]

I have been searching all over the forum for a general concensus on where to start. I am trying to find the find the perfect stone(s) at a reasonable price. I am very new to straight shaving but have jumped in head first. I have acquired around 20 razors in the last month with only three being shave ready. SlashMcCoy has been very helpful in walking me through the use of lapping films but I want to start getting into stones.
After reading the post about the ULTIMATE coticule I realize I have a lot to learn. I, sadly, was the one who drove the price of the eBay stone in the link to such an appearantly rediculous price. But as my summer employment comes to an end so must my wild spending. What hone is reasonably priced and can I get a bit of mileage out of? I am most specifically looking for something that will quickly set a bevel so I can use the lapping film more efficiently and as I run out of lapping film I would like to use hones instead.
There is just an information overload out here. Please help.

Just be glad you did not win the ULTIMATE one.

Coticules are wonderful stones, you can set a bevel and take the razor to a wonderful finish-all on one stone. They require some practice to get dialed in, not hard just takes time.

I second Jarrod form TSS, he has a wonderful selection, great prices, very helpful. Call him or email him, give him your budget and what you are looking for and he can point out a stone.

[Wid]

What they said.

[Krodor]

As an all-around 1-stone solution, the norton 4k/8k is often a suggestion up front. It's easy, big, readily available, and consistent stone to stone. My stone is just like yours. You'll need a DMT to lap it flat (DMT d8c is the standard mate for it), and you'll likely need one anyway. Only problem then is soaking it. FWIW, I'd suggest that instead of a coti...way way easier to get started. All this "learn your stone" is no good if you are simultaneously trying to learn to hone. My 2 pfennigs anyway.

[drathgeb]

I was so bummed when I didnt win the ULTIMATE coti too. The thing was glowing with mojo. I realize now I need to slow down and get skill then the mojo will come.

[Slash McCoy]

If you are using films but want a stone primarily for bevel setting, a 220/1k Norton combo stone is a good option. It is fairly inexpensive. The 220 side is good for edge repair, and will double as a pocketknife sharpener. The 1k is almost the standard for bevel setters. A Coti takes a little longer and costs more, especially if you get one as big as a Norton synthetic. However, a Coti is fun, and challenging. Plus, you can become a "coti snob" if you like.

Why not get the Norton Combo for now, and keep an eye out for a big coticule in the meantime? Not saying that the coti gives a better edge than film, because it absolutely can't touch an expertly done film edge, but the art of the coti is a rewarding pastime and you can still get a very good shaving edge from it. Set the bevel with a thick slurry, and slowly dilute the slurry with water as you hone, and you take it from beginning to end on one stone. For an extra fine finish, after pure water, give it several dozen very light laps with oil or lather on the stone. Quite nice. Just not as nice as the best film edge. But really... until recently an 8k Norton was considered a finisher. So how sharp do you need it, anyway?

[smalltank]

Norton stones are big n bulky..they are a love/hate relationship if you like em or not..I couldnt stand mine..coti's do much more..and you can travel with em easily if need be

[Slash McCoy]

Bigger is better. At least within reason.

For a compact travel kit, go with film and a marble edge tile. You could even cut a piece of heavy glass about 3" x 9" and cut the film crossways instead of longways. VERY small setup, with a better finish capability than the coticule, and more powerful bevel setting ability if you start with 30u and 15u film or with wet/dry sandpaper. Then again, when traveling, usually you are more concerned with touchup honing than bevelsetting and a full progression. So really, only 1u and maybe 3u are needed when traveling.

[Gamma]

Feh -
That little combo stone wasn't the ultimate anything, and it had no more Mojo than any other Coti.
The hype surrounding that stone by the purchaser was ridiculous, unfounded, and riddled with b/s.
Sorry - but that's what I think. The energy spent on mourning the loss of that shrimp-sized stone would be better spent on investigating and purchasing a sight-unseen deal from Jarrod.

So - you missed out on nothing, except paying 2-3x the real value of that nice, but garden-variety, piece of Belgian real-estate.

Coticules are good, so are Nortons. I started with Nortons and then got a Coti. Eventually I tired of the Nortons and moved to other synthetics and natural stones.
Honing is honing - doesn't really matter what you use, as long as you like using it, and the results you get.
Honing technique has a lot to do with it - and personally, I feel that some people hone better on some rocks than they do on others. That doesn't make any one system better in a general sense, but one system or another might be better for any one particular person.
You can't go wrong starting with Nortons or a Coti - either can be sold for about what you paid for them so there's no financial risk. There is no need to buy an Ultimate any-rock to be honest. Unless you know what the plain-jane rock can do, or rather - what you can do with it - there really is no way to gauge what it is that is going to be 'your' Ultimate hone.

[drathgeb]

As always some great advice from you gentlemen. I think I will start shopping around for a Norton first and keep my ear open for a coti in the future. That being said I will continue to try and improve my skills with film. I figure if I can't get a good edge with lapping film then no matter how much mojo a stone has my own skills will be lacking.

[drathgeb]

I am in the market for a Norton. I found this on Amazon and was wondering if it were what I need:
http://www.amazon.com/Norton-Waterst...arpening+stone
Is this too much, not enough or just right?

I also got this stone because it was very cheap:


Can anyone tell me about this thing? I don't read Japanese. Regardless, I can atleast use it for the kitchen knives.

I also got a small coti. Just couldn't resist. Haven't used it yet but will start practicing when I can get an edge by other means. Can I make a slurry without a slurry stone?

[paco664]

nice little coti... you can make slurry on it with a cheap diamond whetstone or it may "autoslurry"....
i personally don't make slurry on my coti.... i use diamond spray or diamond slurry in oil to finish with....
learn the coti it will probably be the only stone you ever need *(but a 1k would be nice to set bevels faster)...

[shakin_jake]

Hey!, that's a nice looking coti...looks like La Grise combo (BBW on the flip side), are there any pink spots on the BBW?...what are the dimensions?


Waiting for danjared to come along any minute now screaming in caps (NO JAKE!!!, THAT'S NOT LA GRISE, IT'S BLAH, BLAH, BLAH)


Best,


=:-)
Jake
Reddick Fla.

[drathgeb]

125x30x24mm

[paco664]

good enough... get to honing...

[shakin_jake]

I'm going to politely disagree with our good friend Paco and suggest for you to come up with some way to build slurry on your coticule combo stone...like either acquiring a coticule slurry stone or like some on B&B suggest, to use a DMT card, by rubbing it on top of the stone. One things for sure, you'll want to lap that coticule so it will be flat, and if you had another piece of coticule (like a slurry stone) you can also polish your main stonem with the smaller slurry stone

You don't want to use sand paper (while honing) as the grit will come off the paper into your slurry...but you could use andpaper to lap your coticule, if you don't want to spring for a DMT plate. I like and use an 8" DMT Duo-Sharp (350/600)...I also use it for raising slurry sometimes

And, if you are not aware, Bart's site has the most up to date information on how to use your coticule (coticule dot be)...here's the index for the chapters on the whys and wherefores...-

http://www.coticule.be/straight-razor-honing.html



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[shakin_jake]

one other thing about your coticule...the 30mm width is an advantage when you're honing razors with a smiling spine. some prefer no narrower than 40mm widths and some even like the wider 50's but you can hone on a narrow stone like you have quite successfully, but take your time developing your honing stroke so as not to rock the blade side to side. Those with sloppy honing strokes do better honing on surfaces 3" in width, like hones made for sharpening wood working tools...Nortons, or bull nose marble sills some here use for film based honing. Nothing wrong with those but no skill is involved so perfect for mindless honing, or those short of skill=:-)


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[paco664]

Jake gives great advice....

I personally (remember that word) don't slurry up my stone... But please mess with it...hone something and discover what works for you...

Definitely check out that link Jake gave ya...