"shaving waivers"??

**TheVez2** · 07-12-2012, 09:18 AM

For the Air Force types out there, here is our reg:

AFI 36-2903

3.1.2.2. Mustaches. Male Airmen may have mustaches; however they will be conservative (moderate, being within reasonable limits; not excessive or extreme) and will not extend downward beyond the lip line of the upper lip or extend sideways beyond a vertical line drawn upward from both corners of the mouth.

3.1.2.3. Beards. Beards are not authorized unless for medical reasons, when authorized by a commander on the advice of a medical official. If commander authorizes, members will keep all facial hair trimmed not to exceed ¼ inch in length. Individuals granted a shaving waiver will not shave or trim any facial hair in such a manner as to give a sculptured appearance. Commanders and supervisors will monitor progress in treatment to control these waivers. If necessary for medical reasons, facial hair will be kept neat and conservative (moderate, being within required limits (not more than ¼ inch); not excessive or extreme), as defined by the local commander.

**htownmmm** · 07-12-2012, 10:54 AM

As a former Army serviceman (and current black male) who needed a shaving waiver that was given to me while stationed @ Walter Reed, I find some of the comments in this thread disturbing.

I did not get a waiver during BT or AIT, although one was sorely needed. Seeing as how a gas mask was a regular part of my gear at the time and would not seal correctly with a beard, I basically dealt with the situation as much as I could during that time. It would have been nice if our DI's had taken the time to instruct us in proper shaving methods, but seeing as how Americans had been taken hostage in Iran during my training, I believe they had other things on their minds.

It was only after I had been @ Walter Reed for 11 months that my company commander, after completing an inspection, gave me an order to be checked out by a dermatologist due to the appearance of my PSEUDOFOLLICULITIS BARBAE (the term the dermatologist used)- a condition caused by shaving. Once seen, a waiver was approved, but had to be re-approved on a regular basis.

The waiver becomes a part of your uniform-if stopped by anyone who outranks you and you do not have it on your person, the service member will be 'asked' to shave right then and there. Disobey the request and see what happens!

I wanted to present a clean shaven appearance as I felt it was my duty to be presentable @ all times; the issue was when I did shave, my appearance became less than presentable. Which combat medic would you want working on/with you-the one who appears to be healthy or the one whose face and neck is covered with numerous large, pus filled protrusions?

If there are some gaming the system, how is that any different from other areas of our society? If you are one writing the chits, but feel there is not a valid reason for one, then why are you signing off on it and then complaining about what you have contributed to?

Amazingly, I did not learn how to shave properly until a few months before finding this site- a couple of decades after my service career ended honorably. But if I follow the logic espoused in this thread, I should have continued to present a Freddy Kreuger like appearance so that others who served wouldn't be upset with how I looked in my uniform. BRILLIANT!

Thankfully, I know how to shave properly now-sometimes even twice a day, with no resulting ingrowns. But that has taken time and knowledge which was not available to me thirty years ago. We should always be careful when judging on appearance-its the results that matter.

**breadstick** · 07-15-2012, 04:19 PM

You, sir, are some kind of beast for being able to tolerate shaving like that for so long.

I have converted a few people at work that thought they needed a shaving waiver but didn't and couldn't get one anyway (depends on which doctor you see).

I have seen a few people that legitimately did need a shaving waiver and those are definitely not the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people that are too lazy to spend a few minutes a day trying to improve their technique. I have offered to bring my gear into work one morning and show them how to do it, but they just don't want to bother. I told them they're not getting a waiver because they already tried, so don't shave on their days off and pay close attention to the way their beard grows. Just changing something as simple as that makes a difference.

My biggest complaint is for people that have a shaving waiver and don't shave all week, but have a perfectly trimmed goatee with the cheeks and neck shaved every weekend.

**luvmysuper** · 07-15-2012, 04:45 PM

To htownmmm;

Certainly none of this is directed at those individuals who truly were in a position of having a genuine medical reason not to shave, such as yourself.

I'm with you on the idea that those who do NOT have a legitimate medical reason are pandered to by some medical staff who find it easier to write a waiver than to reprimand someone who is doing it just to avoid shaving.
I had fellows like that working for me from time to time, and upon receiving reports that they were "trimming up" on the weekends, I made it a point to seek them out, call them on the carpet and revoke the waiver that they had.
The guidelines are very clear. If you have a shaving waiver, you will not shave. Period.

Those who have legitimate issues should and frequently do receive dispensation. A medical condition for shaving is no different than any other medical condition and should be taken into account with no more prejudice than someone who has any other medical condition.

I have no more issue with people who have Pseudofolliculitis Barbae than I do with someone who has broken a leg in training, or someone who has a gall stone. It's a medical condition and they have absolutely no control over it.

Those who are gaming the system are a dishonor to themselves and put an unfair burden on the guys who do not have any issue shaving and who comply with the guidelines.

**Slipitysmooth** · 07-15-2012, 06:15 PM

I see waivers frequently in the Air Force..I agree with some of you all that they are needed in certain cases. However, the part that irks me is the guys who are on them..yet you'll see them off duty and they will be perfectly lined up or clean shaven because its on there own terms, if you can shave then then you should be held to equal standards as everyone else.

**breadstick** · 07-16-2012, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Slipitysmooth

I see waivers frequently in the Air Force..I agree with some of you all that they are needed in certain cases. However, the part that irks me is the guys who are on them..yet you'll see them off duty and they will be perfectly lined up or clean shaven because its on there own terms, if you can shave then then you should be held to equal standards as everyone else.

My stance exactly. There is a thread from some time ago about an African American gentleman that, if he was active duty, definitely deserves a shaving waiver. He finally got it lined out with very much help by fine gentlemen such as yourselves. It was very obvious that he had legitimate problems with shaving and he has the type of problem that shaving waivers exist to remedy. Gaming the system is what irritates me.

**Clovis Man** · 07-16-2012, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by luvmysuper

Those who are gaming the system are a dishonor to themselves and put an unfair burden on the guys who do not have any issue shaving and who comply with the guidelines.

Exactly.

I used to hear of guys that would take a small bottle and fill it with JP-5, then use THAT as "aftershave" when they shaved. This made them break out something fierce, and after six months or so, they could get a discharge from the Marine Corps. Gaming the system, indeed.

**ia_james** · 07-16-2012, 03:58 PM

I once knew of a shaving chit issued for a truly brutal looking case of sunburn. I think he got read the riot act by the company commander for allowing himself to get that burnt.

**Chris7495** · 07-16-2012, 08:44 PM

You know that is a good idea. I'm new to wet shaving and the videos have been a big help. Next time I have one with bad irritation, ill send him online to learn a few pointers.

**Chris7495** · 07-16-2012, 09:01 PM

This is the only time I ever write a chit for someone, little bumps will not get one from me. Most guys have problems for awhile their skin adapts or they change their shave routine. Maybe I will encourage guys with problems to try wet shaving..

**FlyingMonkey** · 07-21-2012, 10:42 PM

So, this is a little off-topic, but I figured this was a good thread to ask the question. It appears that each service has slightly different grooming regulations. For Marines, we are supposed to be clean-shaven at all times, no deviation. That means even if it's the weekend or just running to the PX/gas station in the morning, you will have shaved before leaving your home. It doesn't matter if you're in uniform or not. Now, I'm sure there are Marines who leave the house without shaving, but that's something that we correct whenever the situation arises, but I was wondering what the other services' regs are. I've heard that Air Force doesn't need to shave unless in uniform and it appears from the Army reg that someone quoted they only have to be clean shaven when on duty. Thoughts?

**breadstick** · 07-22-2012, 05:57 AM

The Air Force dress and appearance reg doesn't specify if you have to shave every day or just in uniform, so this is sort of open to interpretation. A lot of people say that since the reg was written to show how you should look in uniform, it doesn't apply to other situations.

**luvmysuper** · 07-22-2012, 06:19 AM

The Navy grooming standard is interpreted as meaning how one should appear in regards to personal grooming, so it applies in or out of uniform.
Although if an individual is away from a Military Installation and in civillian attire chances are he won't be recognized by anyone, and quite a few guys would get loose on the weekends away from home or while on leave.

**Clovis Man** · 07-22-2012, 06:26 AM

The whole time I was in the Air Force, there were always people trying to "get away with something". They always knew the maximum length their hair could be, etc. Several times, I pointed out to various ones that they didn't look the way they should, and I got it thrown back in my face that "the reg states such and such". Gaming the system.
Today, Cannon Air Force Base has lost the fighter wing, almost closed down, and now has a Special Ops wing. These people are night and day different. These are the RUNNINGEST people I ever saw in the Air Force. Many of them sport "high & tights". I almost want to ask them if they think they're Marines -- and then point out to them that they're not!

**FlyingMonkey** · 07-22-2012, 06:36 AM

This discussion reminds me of something a squad leader of mine once said: "When does a GOOD Marine need a haircut and shave?....NEVER!"

**Clovis Man** · 07-22-2012, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by flyingmonkey

this discussion reminds me of something a squad leader of mine once said: "when does a good marine need a haircut and shave?....never!"

exactly right.

**AirForceMX** · 07-22-2012, 08:25 AM

Seen it a lot. Especially here in the sandbox. It's our secret that we actually ENJOY shaving! I've converted three people since I've been over here. :D :D :D

**retturn2blades** · 07-22-2012, 09:13 AM

I don't see why the DOD/Military should care about facial hair with their ridiculous tolerance of tattoos. What is worse, a neat beard or a Hell's Angels tattoo that's visible while in uniform? You tattoo lovers can calm down...I'm taking about GIs looking like gang members or prison inmates. I served and the only break we got was we could have moustaches while in combat zones.

I hear the counter argument that GIs have always had tattoos...true enough...but NEVER visible while in uniform on duty. Most of those old-timer tattoos were unit crests and such.

**TheVez2** · 07-22-2012, 09:22 AM

The Air Force reg talks about how you should look in uniform. What some folks seem to forget is that "civies" is a uniform. If you are on base and in civilian clothes, you are still in uniform. It is also stressed that whether we are on or off base, on or off duty, we still represent the Air Force. As such, we should always maintain our grooming standards.

**dreaded_rust** · 07-22-2012, 09:30 AM

As a lover/collector of tattoos, I can tell you the Air Force reg states no more than 25% of a showing body part can be inked. that means in the short sleeve dress blues uniform only 25% of your arm can be inked, that's not much when you think of it. we dont allow ink bellow the wrists or above the collar bone. If you ask me that's a pretty conservative policy. I will say though that I've seen a lot of Army soldiers with inked up hands, necks etc. I would say that's for two reasons. 1. recruitment and retention. the Army has always had a harder time filling recruitment quotas than the Air Force, especially over the last 8 or 9 years. therefore tattoos, in the grand scheme of things, is something easier to overlook. 2. tattoos have a different place in society than they used to. ink is growing more and more common amongst all sects of American cultures. it's actually pretty hard these days to find a person in their 20s that doesn't have some ink.