How long until Gillette go back to DE/safety razors?

I don't think Gillette will go back to traditional DEs at all, because (a) they've invested so much in disposable and cartridge razors; (b) they'd have to build a new plant and equipment for production - a mammoth investment; (c) they don't have to - the market for traditional DEs, despite the enthusiasm of a small group of people like us, is miniscule compared to that of the plastics market.

If they decide that an investment in traditional wet shaving is justified, it would be a lot less expensive for P&G to acquire an operation like Merkur or Jagger. That way, they could continue to produce and market higher-end products under one of those names, and at some point in the future, expand the selection to re-introduce Gillette-branded products. I think it's also possible that they could acquire a company like Parker, if it was determined that the market for more moderately-priced traditional products, which is fairly large outside the U.S., was worth P&G investment.

Chef Bill said:

I don't think Gillette will go back to traditional DEs at all, because (a) they've invested so much in disposable and cartridge razors; (b) they'd have to build a new plant and equipment for production - a mammoth investment; (c) they don't have to - the market for traditional DEs, despite the enthusiasm of a small group of people like us, is miniscule compared to that of the plastics market.

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I agree with Chef Bill on this, there is just to much money to be made by these companies with disposable and cartridge razors. This is unfortunate for the small group of us who love the traditional DE wet shave!

tacchini said:

adidas have been doing the same as nike, in an even bigger scale with retro sneaker models , i was told adidas had all the old moulds for bringing out these old classic sneakers, there is niche websites about classic adidas sneakers, a bit like this site and razors/shaving, it did cross my mind about gillette doing something along the same lines as the sneaker makers, a retro line of razors.

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I think the difference is that Gillette would not make nearly as much money as they currently make if they started selling DE razors, because the bulk of the money is made on the cartridge not the razor itself.

Now if adidas or nike made a ton of money on selling shoelaces because they only lasted a week or so, then this would be a good comparison, but the truth is these companies make huge profits on the main product not the necessary add ons.

Gillette will never go back, because they can't make as much money with DE blade as they can with cartridges, and business is all about increasing shareholder wealth.

x2

Agreed. Each type of shaving has its good and bad points.

If you're in a hurry, and don't want to bother about the "ritual" of shaving, I see no reason not to buy cartridges. (Aside from the outrageous price.) Some people just want to shave and hit the road; nothing wrong with that.

I'm not sure if I'm getting a better shave with DE - but I am enjoying it more. And with a really good blade (like a Gillette Silver Blue, Feather, or Polsilver), the shaves turn out to be quite economical.

johant1968 said:

Remember the not entirely successfull reintroduction of the Parker 51 and the Sheaffer Balance? I am sure that other companies have watched that.

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The 2002 Parker 51 was a special edition and sold out very quickly so I think it was quite successfull. It was, however, not realy a Parker 51 although it was modelled on the 1945 Empire State 51. Inside it was more akin to a Parker Sonnet and shared the Sonnet's problem of drying out if not used frequently. I have one and it is a great pen but it is NOT a Parker 51. The other interesting aspect is that it was introduced 2 years after Gillette sold Parker to Sandford so I think Gillette/P & G are well aware of any pitfalls involved.
What about a limited edition Toggle? On second thought perhaps not as P & G would probably charge £1,000 for a chinese made copy

Matlock said:

The 2002 Parker 51 was a special edition and sold out very quickly so I think it was quite successfull. It was, however, not realy a Parker 51 although it was modelled on the 1945 Empire State 51. Inside it was more akin to a Parker Sonnet and shared the Sonnet's problem of drying out if not used frequently.

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Remember that it was only successfull until it turned out that the plastic barrels cracked? I guess that Parker had to handle quite some returns. The same with the Sheaffer Balance pens (except the cheapest line, ironically) ... most of them suffered from cracked caps after a while. Kudos to Sheaffer for their customer service though!

johant1968 said:

Remember that it was only successfull until it turned out that the plastic barrels cracked? I guess that Parker had to handle quite some returns. The same with the Sheaffer Balance pens (except the cheapest line, ironically) ... most of them suffered from cracked caps after a while. Kudos to Sheaffer for their customer service though!

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You are quite right about the cracked barrels but it was only one batch (still quite a number) all were replaced but it did not help their reputation. It was still only a limited edition and never meant to be a reintroduction. I am afraid Sheaffer have never got back to their old quality since they moved the production line to Italy and China. Come to think of it all cheaper Parkers are made in China now with just the prestige models made by Waterman in France.

Matlock said:

You are quite right about the cracked barrels but it was only one batch (still quite a number) all were replaced but it did not help their reputation.

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The barrel cracking was what stuck in my mind mostly ... you could be right that it was only a single batch though.

I love my Sonnet pens, btw. But indeed, especially the first series suffered from drying out.

johant1968 said:

The barrel cracking was what stuck in my mind mostly ... you could be right that it was only a single batch though.

I love my Sonnet pens, btw. But indeed, especially the first series suffered from drying out.

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I too love Sonnet pens and provided you are aware of the drying out and use fairly fluid inks it does not pose too much of a problem.
(how did we get onto Parker pens?)

There's always an excuse to talk fountain pens

It's never coming back. Those companies will lose a lot of money if they do it, just compare the price and durability of a DE razor and a cartridge. Many men don't care about shaving at all, they'll buy anything thats available at their local store so at the end those high end companies can create any product they like and sell it at any price.

You'd be surprised (or not) that my Gillette cartridge razor already lasts for over 30 years, and shows no signs of breakage.

We are being noticed

When Gillette states the cost is a $1 per week and Pawn Star Rick is hawking TTO's-------we are being noticed

Where that goes, I can't say.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific, there was a thread here talking about Fusion sales dropping off enough for Gillette to now push newly packaged "Sensitive" Mach 3 cartridges at a lower price than Fusion. Checking Amazon and other sources, it seems to be true. A positive trend towards DE perhaps?

bcs89 said:

very cryptic - but you do have my attention... please continue.

-s

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Bernardus said:

I do not have the liberty to say at this time.....just be patient for now.

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I'm going to tell you something . . . tomorrow. Stay tuned.

Omaha-BeenGlockin said:

Where that goes, I can't say.

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Maybe to P&G raising the price of their DE blades ...

Maybe someone will license the Fatboy, the same way that Gillette branded DE products are being made and sold in 2nd and 3rd world countries.

Garyark said:

Maybe someone will license the Fatboy, the same way that Gillette branded DE products are being made and sold in 2nd and 3rd world countries.

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I suspect any patents are expired. So it's really a matter of market forces.

Look at the Weishi TTO clone of a '40s or '50s Gillette. I know I sound like a broken record talking about them sometimes. While it is absolutely true that Weishi lacks the fit and finish of a vintage Gillette after replating, it's still a helluva good deal for about $12. I take one traveling all the time.

But even at that, the very inexpensive Weishi has economic pressures from things like the Re Mei.

But even the Weishi factory doesn't see a strong market for a higher quality product, with it's associated higher production costs.

If you want they'll make razors branded for you, and laser etch your logo in the doors, for about $2.50 per unit in bulk quantities. If you don't want any customization you can buy bulk at about $200/100ct. (Yes, I have talked directly to the factory about this.)

Overall, these manufacturers see a potential market of a billion men in SE Asia for inexpensive razors. And a niche market of thousands of men for high quality, expensive to manufacture razors.

Could you contract the Weishi factory to make "new" Fatboys? Sure. They're in it for money. But you'll have to be the one taking the risk. And setup costs would be high.

They will never. I don't think they really care about tradition or history.

Christian_V said:

They will never. I don't think they really care about tradition or history.

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I wouldn't be that harsh. But they've got a parent company. And that parent company cares about the Profit & Loss statement. And that parent company's stock holders also care about the P&L. And the stock holders have voting rights.

Essentially the only companies that can sacrifice profit for intangibles are privately held corporations. There the voting blocks of stock holders is very small.