It' so sad; I'm really angry

[rafikz]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...aservideo.html

Video
http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/bc/ondem...TASERVIDEO.wmv

Taser related deaths in Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/map-tasers-canada/

[michaelskar]

really unfortunate stuff there...

[rafikz]

The "funniest" part (there is nothing funny, but you get my point) was this comment of an RCMP representative : "this video is not the whole story"; pretty lame excuse; I so wanted to beat him when he said that (but I guess he would have thrown 1 000 000 Volts at me, just for thinking about it)

[VR6ofpain]

Well the article you posted indicates, "The video was recorded in three segments". What he was probably trying to say was that watching the video does not give you the whole story. You have no idea what took place during the two unfilmed segments. So he has a point.

[rafikz]

Well the article you posted indicates, "The video was recorded in three segments". What he was probably trying to say was that watching the video does not give you the whole story. You have no idea what took place during the two unfilmed segments. So he has a point.

Technically, he has a point, but as an RCMP member, he knows what everybody witnessed, so this is pure hypocrisy.

[Doc4]

Every time I see that video, I get so p!$$ed off.

I don't have a problem with the tazer being part of the police equipment, but the behaviour of those 4 officers was way over the top ... that guy was way down the 'force response spectrum'.

I suspect that part of the problem is how excessive security has become at airports in the past few years ... over-reaction is "okay" there.

[MotoMike]

Something about the Tazer rubs people the wrong way. They feel like it is not a fair fight and people would just rather see those 4 cops manhandle him to the ground and wrestle him into submission. If it were a full on wrestling match in which everyone is trying as hard as they can, someone would get hurt.

In this case the results were tragic. I will say that on first blush and from the vantage point of the video, it could look like they were trigger-happy. My take is that just before he backed against the wall, they had tried to cuff or otherwise take him into custody. He then escaped their grasp and backed against the wall. We could not see if he had anything in his hands or if he was trying to get something out of his pocket. I am sorry that he died. I do feel however that when you are ranting and raving and smashing computer monitors and holding up tables and what ever else he was doing in there, that it is reasonable to expect that law enforcement will be taking you into custody. You have already demonstrated a violent tendency. I encourage people to allow the investigation to be completed.


Most departments have a use of force continuum, which dictates where the Tazer may be used. It usually goes between the verbal commands and the use of an impact weapon or pepper spray. In otherworlds, if you tell someone they are under arrest and to turn around and put their hands behind their backs, and they tell you to screw off and try to leave, it is Tazer time.

The concern about using pepper spray in the airport is a real one. The story made it seem like a lame excuse. If you have ever been involved in an incident where pepper spray was used, you would know that it spreads very far and effects everyone who gets a whiff. I think I have seen schools evacuated from using it to control one subject.

Tazers do not in the hundreds of thousands of uses cause death. In the greatest majority of cases Tazers reduce injury to officers and suspects.

They must not have gotten him with both probes on the first shot, as he did not drop where he was, that is why you hear the second crack. They did not continue to use the Tazer as he continued to resist. The idea is to get him cuffed up before the 5-second initial shot finishes. Their use of force protocol probably allowed additional doses until the he complied.

I have been shot with a Tazer and found it to be the most painful and longest 5 seconds of my life. I was trying to stay on my feet and fight. It was not possible. Immediately after the initial dose, which is 5 seconds automatically, The pain went away and I was back to normal.

Regards,

Mike

[Suzuki]

It so easy to criticize police officers for using "excess" force when subduing people in situations like this and the media is quick to jump on the police brutality bandwagon.

I am not saying how the situation was or wasn't appropriate.

I also note that the "code red" appeared to have been said by a security guard, not one of the police officers and it was said while the struggle was still onsuing - my sense is that the use of the term "code red" was to signal a disturbance, and not any indication that the person being subdued was in medical distress. The struggle was still in process and there simply wasn't time for anyone to have determined that medical attention was needed when this was said.

Its unfortunate and there should be a complete investigation - including external investigators - to determine what happened, whether proper procedures were followed and how this sort of thing can be avoided.

However, when you're a decent sized guy acting erratically in an airport, you've got to expect a pretty severe police reaction. To do this where you also don't speak the language can only worsen the situation.

As I said above, its so easy to criticize police officers/armchair quarterback, but at the end of the day, very few of us are ever going to be in a situation where we have to physically subdue someone. The police can't win - its not ok to draw their weapons, its not ok to use a baton, its not ok to use physical force, its not ok to use a taser - you get my point.

The reality is that you can't talk people into submission in many cases and that force is needed. While I definitely think police officers need to use restraint, they do need to be able to use appropriate amounts of force. I personally know a police officer who spent several months in hospital and was lucky not to have been killed - why - because he tried to intervene in a situation, was concerned that he could get into trouble for drawing his weapon and decided to use his baton instead. I suspect he would have very much wished an option such as a taser had been available to him.

And the video is not the whole story - the man may have had something in his hands, may have said something to the police, etc...

I wasn't there so I'll wait until there's a proper investigation before passing judgement or suggesting that I want to beat a police officer who said something I didn't agree with or insinuating that police go around using tasers on people who they don't agree with.

[Texican]

+1. I'm with Suzuki on this one.

Whether or not excessive force was used, the man should have cooperated with police. Case in point...

My wife is a type-I diabetic. One day in college when we were dating, we drove to church one Sunday. While driving through the city with me, her blood sugar plummeted, sending her into a state of erratic behavior - swerving in and out of traffic dangerously and screaming at me (if anyone has ever been with a type-I diabetic or watched the movie "Steel Magnolias" you know what I am talking about.) I pulled the emergency brake, got out of the car, and put her in the passenger seat so that I could tend to her and call 911 for assistance.

Someone saw the incident and called the police, thinking that I was having a "domestic disturbance" with her. The police arrived and saw blood (I pricked her finger with the glucon-monitor to see what her blood sugar was while waiting for the ambulance to come) and a passed out girl in the passenger seat.

They did what any sane, rational, and thoughtful police officer would have done - they cuffed me for their safety, pulled me to the side, and spoke to me. After I told them what had happened, and they saw that the ambulance arrived, they apologized and uncuffed me to let me render assistance.

Several college student friends of mine thought this was excessive. Here I was - not only being a Good Samaritan and a church-going citizen, but a good boyfriend helping the girl that I loved, and I was put in irons and dragged to the side of the road?

It might have been, but they were doing it for their protection. They had no idea who I was or what I was doing.

I know this situation doesn't compare, but it is an example of an extreme police sometimes must take in order to see to their own safety, and how important it is to cooperate with law enforcement in times of confusion.

[rafikz]

+1. I'm with Suzuki on this one.

Whether or not excessive force was used, the man should have cooperated with police. Case in point...

My wife is a type-I diabetic. One day in college when we were dating, we drove to church one Sunday. While driving through the city with me, her blood sugar plummeted, sending her into a state of erratic behavior - swerving in and out of traffic dangerously and screaming at me (if anyone has ever been with a type-I diabetic or watched the movie "Steel Magnolias" you know what I am talking about.) I pulled the emergency brake, got out of the car, and put her in the passenger seat so that I could tend to her and call 911 for assistance.

Someone saw the incident and called the police, thinking that I was having a "domestic disturbance" with her. The police arrived and saw blood (I pricked her finger with the glucon-monitor to see what her blood sugar was while waiting for the ambulance to come) and a passed out girl in the passenger seat.

They did what any sane, rational, and thoughtful police officer would have done - they cuffed me for their safety, pulled me to the side, and spoke to me. After I told them what had happened, and they saw that the ambulance arrived, they apologized and uncuffed me to let me render assistance.

Several college student friends of mine thought this was excessive. Here I was - not only being a Good Samaritan and a church-going citizen, but a good boyfriend helping the girl that I loved, and I was put in irons and dragged to the side of the road?

It might have been, but they were doing it for their protection. They had no idea who I was or what I was doing.

I know this situation doesn't compare, but it is an example of an extreme police sometimes must take in order to see to their own safety, and how important it is to cooperate with law enforcement in times of confusion.

He should have cooperated, but does that justify 50 000 (yes 50 000) Volts ? NO !!!!

4 policemen, 1 man; they could have just grabbed him and calm him down, but no, they had to tase him; they are not real men, they are cowards.

[moses]

He should have cooperated, but does that justify 50 000 (yes 50 000) Volts ? NO !!!!

4 policemen, 1 man; they could have just grabbed him and calm him down, but no, they had to tase him; they are not real men, they are cowards.

I wouldn't be so fast on that, perhaps. I have not looked at the video yet (at work) but.... The idea is for no one to get hurt. Now, 99% of the time, with a tazer, no one gets hurt (yes, I realize the tazer hurts like hell at the time, but that is relatively fleeting). I doubt that could be said of physically subduing people.

-Mo

[Texican]

As Suzuki said, we don't know whether or not this gentleman had a weapon or what.

It is a very unfortunate situation, and I feel for the man and his mother. I cannot judge as I have never been a police officer or in law enforcement. And having in laws in the FBI doesn't count either. But I think this incident should not be a pretext for removing tasers from the RCMP arsenal. All in all, it is a weapon that saves lives - not only decreasing the amount of police fatalities, but perpetrators ones as well.

[Doc4]

He should have cooperated, but does that justify 50 000 (yes 50 000) Volts ? NO !!!!

4 policemen, 1 man; they could have just grabbed him and calm him down, but no, they had to tase him; they are not real men, they are cowards.

If he spoke any English, maybe he would have complied.

I don't object to police using tazers in appropriate situations, or other appropriate force. And whatever comes out of the inquest and trial will no doubt sway my opinions ... but right now I'm waiting for that process to convince me as to why what I saw on that video was an appropriate response. (It may have been appropriate, but right now I don't see it. But I'm always willing to change my opinions if I ought to.)

[Rolo]

I can't believe that there are actually people defending those cops. Yes the man was irate, but the cops didn't do anything to try to calm him down. And they tazed him four times? You just can't defend that.

Has anyone explained why he was there for 8 hours after landing with nobody to help him? YVR really screwed up big time.

I saw the vid of his mom and it broke my heart.

[Doc4]

As Suzuki said, we don't know whether or not this gentleman had a weapon or what.

It is a very unfortunate situation, and I feel for the man and his mother. I cannot judge as I have never been a police officer or in law enforcement. And having in laws in the FBI doesn't count either. But I think this incident should be a pretext for removing tasers from the RCMP arsenal. All in all, it is a weapon that saves lives - not only decreasing the amount of police fatalities, but perpetrators ones as well.

Typo? You mean should not be a petext to remove tasers?

[Rolo]

If he spoke any English, maybe he would have complied.

Several witnesses told the cops that he didn't speak English, that he only spoke Russian (I guess it sounds like Polish).

[Texican]

Typo? You mean should not be a petext to remove tasers?

Yes it was a typo. I made the appropriate edit. Thanks.

[liege]

I'll bet Rodney King and most of Los Angeles wishes Mr. King had only been "tazed".

[Rolo]

I'll bet Rodney King and most of Los Angeles wishes Mr. King had only been "tazed".

So the choices are being beaten to a bloody pulp by a bunch of out of control cops or being tazed to death?

[Texican]

I don't know what to say. I can't say whether it was or wasn't extreme force for the circumstances. I'm not a law enforcement expert.

But I do agree that this case should be investigated thoroughly.