Stropping vs. Steeling

[Alum of Potash]

Lately, I've been cleaning up some carbon steel kitchen knives and sharpening them, then using a steel to maintain the edge. So this has me wondering about the basic similarities and differences between stropping and steeling, and whether or not steeling a kitchen knife is really serving the same purpose as stropping a straight-razor. Or is steeling more analogous to polishing (honing) on a very hard stone? One thing that I find interesting with steeling is that the action is edge-first, whereas with stropping, the action is spine-first. Is it possible to steel a straight-razor successfully? And as with honing, is it sometimes possible to steel a knife spine-first?

[ladykate]

Note: I'm not an expert on steels or knives - but I play one when I'm alone. I'm likely to say something that will make the kniferati seeth and show disdain.

Well... I have a nice Gerber steel that I bought a billion years ago that is just excellent for me (I'm not a knife guy - but I like sharp knife blades). It works either way - edge first or spine first. My kitchen steel is similar. There are some rough edges on the kitchen steel (happens after a few years in my house) and spine first is less likely to snag a greeble on the steel.

The problem is, I don't have a 'good enough' steel to even try to work a razor. Razors have delicate edges and my steels have all been to hell and back. They will maintain an 'arm hair shave' on any of my knives but I wouldn't want to shave from them. However, I can imagine using a polished steel base with a compound on it and getting results. Someone used marble with CrO2 on it the other day. No reason something like that wouldn't work.

[Seraphim]

This is my theoretical analysis, with no actual basis in empirical evidence:

The edge on a knife has a rather large bevel angle (20-35 degrees). It is pretty beefy to handle cutting, chopping tasks.

The edge on a razor has a rather small bevel angle (15-17 degrees), All it needs to do is cut whiskers that have been softened up with water and lather.

The knife edge, when bent out of shape requires a rather strong coercion to re-align it again, so a firm steel surface with small contact area is required

A razor edge when bent out of shape, due to it's thinness does not require as much "oomph", so a broad, flat leather is sufficient to do the job without causing further damage.

[srmd22]

Good question. I have wondered the very same. Looking forward to some opinions. Could you "steel" a straight razor instead of stropping?

I do know that you can strop a knife, as I have done this. It works, but it is easier and less unwieldy to use a steel in the kitchen.

[honed]

Short answer "no, you can't"

Long answer;
Steeling a knife works only on softer knives, like the Germans & the cheap stuff you buy at the mall or most other newly made knives that doesn't cost alot.
It works by realigning the edge, with the soft steel the edge simple folds over and develop "micro-teeth" that the steeling realigns.
This will not work on the hard steel that a razor is made from. In the best of worlds the steel will do nothing, in worst case it will rip all these micro-damaged areas off & create a micro-chipped edge
that during the next shave will make you bleed.

Same thing if you try & steel a good quality hard steel knife, like a Japanese or a custom made, those seems to be the only knives today that are made with really good steel.

This is true for the "normal" types of steels.

There are also other types of steel, more develpoed towards higher quality/better steel knives.
Like various ceramic steels & the boron silicate rods that Hand American offers.
These works great with even the hardest knife steels & would certainly work on a razor.
Problem is that even the finest ones are like 1200 grits...

So, while I haven't tried it & certainly never will, depending on what I have seen happen way to many times with people steeling good knives to death I can not recommend it.

[ouch]

Another big potential downside to steeling is that the steel is round, so the contact patch with the blade is vanishingly small. That could wreak havoc on the very thin edge as it would be very difficult to maintain low pressure given the tiny surface area. Just a bad idea all around, in my view.

Even if you use a skinny stone, or a tiny bout, there is sufficient area in contact with the stone to distribute the force. And as the esteemed Honed said, even a "smooth" steel is anything but. This is one wheel that doesn't need reinventing.

[john shea]

Stropping also works great on knives, but strops may not be rugged enough for use in a wet greasy commercial kitchen. I have several pasted bench strops that are dedicated for knife use. I made them (3 x 12 inches) from Hand American leather acquired from Woodcraft glued to 3 x 12 x 3/4 inch boards. They keep my kitchen knife edges in great condition as long as the knife edge has not been abused after which it will require a trip to my stones.

I would never use a steel on a razor, the edge is too delicate for a steel.

Steels do not work well for very hard steel knives, but work OK for softer knives such as commercial grade knives and German (Wusthof) and French steel (Sabatier) blades.

Pasted strops are a mild abrasive. Steels are reputed to restraighten the "micro serrations" of soft steel blades but are said to be inappropriate for hard steel that may microchip rather than straighten.

I have a second set of strops dedicated to straight razors.

HTH

[Alum of Potash]

Interesting information. Thanks for all the advice guys. I have some follow-up questions on the kitchen knives, so maybe I will take these to the mess hall...

[ps49556n]

I rarely use a steel on a kitchen knife, I find that a quick touch up with a high grit is more effective.

[JeffR]

A few years ago I became curious and steeled the edge of a couple of my razors on several occasions. Every time it produced a very smooth and sharp edge that shaved very well.

Jeff

[cleanshaved]

Same thing if you try & steel a good quality hard steel knife, like a Japanese or a custom made, those seems to be the only knives today that are made with really good steel.

.

my understanding is the steel MUST be harder than the knife for it to work, so a good knife will just laugh at a cheap steel.

[O.G.]

When in doubt, try it and let us know. JeffR said that he was successful so more than one experiment is due. Let is know how it works. I also wonder if you get one of those small round cotic from the mines could you use it instead of steeling but for the same purpose? It's round. Best of luk.

[rajagra]

Knife experts take great pleasure in mocking people who use steels the "wrong" way (spine first.)
They ignore the fact that going edge first is a totally illogical way to achieve the stated purpose of the steel - to realign the edge.
I can see how it can straighten minor bends in the edge - but there is no way it can do it any better than going spine first!
What it will do is take badly bent sections and fold the edge back over on itself, creating a 'faux' edge that is not terribly sharp, but will not impede cutting by the remaining sharp parts of the blade.
To me that seems like a lazy, half-assed thing to do. It's neither straightening nor sharpening. And for them to mock people who use a steel in a way that DOES do a pure job of straightening the edge is laughable IMO.

So, on top the other arguments against steeling a razor, you don't want to create folded-over sections of the razor edge.
And if you're going to go spine first ... well using a strop does that job well enough.

[weizemanner]

I've never seen a steel that didn't have at least a couple burrs in it. not much trouble on a knife, but i could see it tearing a full hollow in half if you did it fast like a french chef.

[JeffR]

I find that pretty much any smooth piece of steel will work. In my experiment with the razor I used the chrome-plated hexagonal shaft of the small screwdriver that I use to remove and replace PC boards in my computer. I used a very light circular and back-and-forth rubbing ("honing") motions instead of the classic swiping motion I use for my cooking knives. Using a stropping spine-first motion has also worked for me.

I should also add that even though steeling the razor this way does work, I think stropping on canvas and leather works better.

Best Wishes,
Jeff

[erictski]

I have often wondered about this for Knives. I have seen videos of people doing it both ways.

From what i understand you can have two types of rod sharpeners for knives...one a steel and one an actual honing surface that is abrazive like a 800 or 1000 grit,

would you use your knife edge first on the abrasive rod but spine first on the smooth steel?