Nakayama Kiita

[Gamma]

Back on topic

I have a few Kita stones. Each is different than the others in its own way. I don't get 'black' slurry from any of them when honing a western razor but maybe I would if I sharpened a chisel or Kamisori or something. I've read where people have claimed that Kitas are 'generally' softer than Asagi, but then I have seen many Asagi stones that were being sold as LV 2 or LV 3.
So - I don't know what to think other than each stone is it's own thing. Generalizing about Jnats based on color might not be all that helpful.
Still - the hardest stone I have is an Asagi - but I'm not prepared to believe there aren't any Kitas that would be just as hard. I just passed on an offer to buy an Ozuku Kita that was claimed to be as hard as anything out there. I'll probably never know unless I change my mind and buy that one too. I chose the Mizu Asagi over it based on size mostly.

The Nakayama Kita used to be/still is (judging from what I've read, I have no hands-on or first-hand knowledge here) a highly coveted stone. My guess would be that these Kitas were known to have a good mix of the best qualities. IMO - the really really hard stones are very very hard to work with. For me - a bit of softness goes a long way.
Theoretically - one would be able to produce the finest edge on the hardest stone. I think this is where the skill-level variable speaks volumes; without the skill, the resulting edge will be flawed.

[Drybonz]

So - I don't know what to think other than each stone is it's own thing. Generalizing about Jnats based on color might not be all that helpful.

Good points, Gamma... and from what I'm seeing here vs. what I have been reading about the kiita layer, it seems to be true. I wish I had a chance to work with this stone more than I have over the last couple days... but I'm going to sit down with it soon and try to figure it out a bit more.

[Drybonz]

i ordered from 330mate off ebay.. and paid 7$ for "expedited shipping"..... they shipped it 7 days after my purchase and i am still freakin waiting......

Was it a kiita? I wonder if it was the one I was originally going to buy instead of the one I pictured above...

[paco664]

Was it a kiita? I wonder if it was the one I was originally going to buy instead of the one I pictured above...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160821845776...84.m1439.l2649


this is it....... i dunno.... says it is 5+++ hardness but i was told this guy has a tendency to "elaborate"........ and it is pictured with black slurry...

we gonna see...

[jeness]

I never had the courage to buy anything expensive from 330mate, too much bad info on every forum out there.

[Wid]

I never had the courage to buy anything expensive from 330mate, too much bad info on every forum out there.

Same here.

[Kentos]

Has anyone ever got a jnat that wouldn't give a keen edge? Obviously a stone the consistency of a paving block wouldn't cut it, but how bad can a stone really be? If you can raise a slurring off a nagura wouldn't it be hard enough? Or is the sweet spot for a razor worthy stone really narrow?

[Drybonz]

Has anyone ever got a jnat that wouldn't give a keen edge? Obviously a stone the consistency of a paving block wouldn't cut it, but how bad can a stone really be? If you can raise a slurring off a nagura wouldn't it be hard enough? Or is the sweet spot for a razor worthy stone really narrow?

Good point... I think it is just because we all look at this stuff under a microscope (literally, if you are Seraphim).

[Kentos]

I am almost tempted to get a cheap Jnat that looks decent enough and see what happens.

Maybe next month when funds are more liquid;)

[Gamma]

If the stone is too soft, the edge will never refine to where we want it; with continued honing, the stone will continually give up new particles that will impede the refinement process. Jnats have abrasive particles in the 2-3 micron range. I think that's baout 4/6k JIS. If the stone isn't hard enough, the razors edge could possibly never refine past that point.
There's more to the story than just hardness and particle size, but that's a good start-point to work with. I think it's possible to get a 50-buck 330mate special that can produce a pretty good or even an excellent edge though. After that, each incremental step up the performance and qualities (shape, size, provenance) ladder will bring a higher price tag.

[paco664]

well.... you know when it gets here we will find out quickly...

[Doc226]

well.... you know when it gets here we will find out quickly...

I can you looking just like your avatar when you check the mail and not finding your stone.

Actually you will need to sign for it.

[jeness]

I got a cheap koppa size Jnat from him once, and it was a fine and hard stone. The only problem was, there were toxic lines everywhere, and there was only about 5x7cm of usable field on the stone. So not the fineness and hardness can be the only problem with a cheap hone. If the lines weren't there, it would have been a 30$ bargain, but it turned out to be 30$ wasted. I was thinking a few times about buying some more, maybe I will get lucky, but I didn't buy another one yet.

[honed]

As for 330mate there is a lot of bad words about him on the forums.
However, we should strongly consider where all this bad-mouthing comes from...

I wonder how many exactly that has gotten a stone from him & not have been pleased with it, especially for the price..
When you dig a little deeper there is often 2 types of people bad-mouthing vendors/people/whatever on the Net.

One category being the people who likes to bad-mouth, the kind of guy who complains at everyone & everything. We all know that guy.
Second being the one who has personal interest in talking down on something.. (Compare the Gold Dollar...)

[paco664]

my review will be honest.... i don't have a dog in that fight....

[danjared]

When I had one, it was pretty nice. There was some "toxic" rock, but it was on the sides, so I just chamfered the edges. I recall it also being harder than the Nakayama Kiita I had at the time.

[Gamma]

This;

As for 330mate there is a lot of bad words about him on the forums.
However, we should strongly consider where all this bad-mouthing comes from...

[duderdo]

I just got my Kiita from Takeshi. It's more than a half of a large, expensive stone that broke-- the working area is small but seems perfectly usable. Before I lapped it I gave my large Oozuku tomonagura a few swirls on it and with some effort got a distinctly yellow slurry. After lapping I did it again and it seemed harder to raise a slurry-- although not quite as difficult as my Oozuku-- and the slurry was the color of my Tomonagura . Anyway, I diluted to just water and got a very nice looking finish, more mirror than gray unlike my Oozuku, and it seems to cut hair above skin level like a beast. Haven't shaved with it yet!

[Drybonz]

I just got my Kiita from Takeshi.

That is where my stone in the op came from, dudero... let me know how it goes with yours.

[Kentos]

I just got my Kiita from Takeshi. It's more than a half of a large, expensive stone that broke-- the working area is small but seems perfectly usable. Before I lapped it I gave my large Oozuku tomonagura a few swirls on it and with some effort got a distinctly yellow slurry. After lapping I did it again and it seemed harder to raise a slurry-- although not quite as difficult as my Oozuku-- and the slurry was the color of my Tomonagura . Anyway, I diluted to just water and got a very nice looking finish, more mirror than gray unlike my Oozuku, and it seems to cut hair above skin level like a beast. Haven't shaved with it yet!

IMHO, the smoother your honyama and tomo get, the harder it gets to raise a slurry- heck I only get a faint whisper of a slurry off the tomo on my stone now. And your honyama is harder than the tomo you have since the slurry was the color of the tomo. Ideally you would want a chunk off the honyama, but from what I understand it shouldnt really matter in the end, unless either honyama or tomo are really an inferior stone. Gamma will have a better explaination.