Lawn Mowers-Homeowner's Curse

Finally got a bellyfull of my Toro GTS (uh huh) with the sickly Tecumseh engine which the local dealer refused to fix under warranty because it was "bad fuel". After $91 and selling me a few gallons of his "ethanol free" fuel (because that is what supposedly caused this engine to run like crap), same thing next time I attempted to use it. Granted, ethanol fuel is not small engine friendly but this was NOT the cause of the problem. Solution? New dealer and new mower. Honda HRR 216 was on sale and the other dealer (although 20 miles away) got my business. Guess we'll see how she treats the turf later this week.

Side note to you small business owners out there:

Never treat your customer like a chump and presume he doesn't know anything about your product. I rebuilt more than my share of engines over the years and didn't appreciate a $91 bill and condescending explanation for what was an obvious carburetion problem not necessarily caused by fuel. He lost a nice profit on a new mower sale and was bestowed with the guarantee I will diss him and his operation to anyone I can.

Honda makes an excellent mower. My folks have one and it's been going for a very long time.
I have a Craftsman that is almost junk now but it has done it's job well.

Too bad you weren't treated better at that first place.
Customer Service isn't what it used to be.

I just have a crummy push lawnmower but had serious issues with it starting the last couple of years. It would basically start for a second or two and then stop. The previous season, I replaced the spark plug which sort of helped. This season, it wouldn't even start. I ended up emptying all of the gas and changed the oil. When I refueled it, I added in some "fuel stabilizer" to remove the EtOH. In my case, it worked!

Sorry to hear you had crummy service. Unfortunately, warranties are only as good as the company and small business doesn't necessarily mean better business (except B&B vendors, of course).

+1 on using fuel stabilizer. Whenever I buy gas for one of the small engines I have--straight gas for the mower, 50:1 for the chain saw, etc.--I add StaBil as soon as I get home.

My wife took pity on me 4 years ago and gave me a Honda powered Lawn Boy Insight mower. I keep up with the oil changes, and blow out the air filter a few times a season with compressed air. The engine ALWAYS starts on the first pull. It's so reliable as to seem almost freakish, especially after the succession of borderline-junk garage sale 'finds' I had been using (or trying to use....). I still don't enjoy cutting the grass, but at least I don't have to battle the mower for twenty minutes to get started!

Most small engines don't like the "clean" fuels. Check with a marine/boating shop for fuel additives to treat the ethanol etc. Made a noticable improvement with my outboard and snowblower.

Tom

Sea Foam is the additivemost preferred around here. But....I do have access to ethanol free gas at a service station about 5 miles from here. Probably just become a customer there.

We had a Craftsman that we - literally - ran until the wheels fell off & recently bought a new Honda to replace it. That old Craftsman took a lot of abuse over the years & I don't have a single complaint about it, but I am hoping this Honda will give us at least another 10-15 years, hopefully longer. Didn't know about the ethanol issue with small engines so thanks for the heads-up on that.

Acmemfg said:

Sea Foam is the additivemost preferred around here. But....I do have access to ethanol free gas at a station about 5 miles from here. Probably just become a customer there.

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I work at a gas station, and do the ordering. Confused about "...access to ethanol free gas at a service station about 5 miles from here." Every station here has regular (no ethanol), super (with ethanol), and some have whatever premium is. You have to drive five miles to get regular gas?

john parker said:

I work at a gas station, and do the ordering. Confused about "...access to ethanol free gas at a service station about 5 miles from here." Every station here has regular (no ethanol), super (with ethanol), and some have whatever premium is. You have to drive five miles to get regular gas?

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Where I live at least, it's not as common to get gas without ethanol. The majority of gas stations around me add ethanol to their gas. I know, it sucks.

Old engines the ethanol can swell some rubber parts, and dissolve some resins out of other parts. Generally not a problem in newer engines as they are designed to tolerate the alcohol. (I will go with pre 1980 as old in this case)

Now ethanol WILL pull moisture straight out of the air and if you live in a really humid environment can cause the fuel to "break" meaning water will separate out of the fuel! Ethanol will also cause fuel to remain "fresh" for a shorter period of time than without. Both are bad for engines that run once a week or less.

I use Sta-Bil. I am not super consistent about using it in the summer as I go through a good bit of fuel with my 4 acres. My gas cans are air tight, which is also helpful. Another thing that can help is draining and running the gas out at the end of the season, something I only did with the push mower and my outboard motor.

Phil

I, too, am a big user of Sta-Bil, though I only use it when the machine (lawn mower or snow thrower) has done its seasonal bit and will sit till the next year. I run the engine down on gas, add the Sta-Bil, run it a bit more, then I am set. Haven't had a problem in starting the machine the next season since I started doing that. But without it, BIG problems! As to ethanol or not at the pumps, only thing I have noticed is that in the "corn" states ethanol is subsidized and is 10 cents a gallon cheaper than regular. In non-corn states the reverse is true; ethanol is 10 more per gallon. Just recently Nebraska dropped the subsidy, and I have been watching the prices with interest because ethanol alone can go up and down in price independent of gasoline. Half way expected that the two would end up priced the same, but that hasn't happened yet.

maxman said:

Honda makes an excellent mower...

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This is just my opinion having been around mowers most of my life. My father has had a small engine repair/lawnmower sales business for over 30 years. I'm an Ford Master/ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician and can fix anything automotive or small engine related. Dad's now 82 years old and as one might imagine calls on me all to often to help him with his problem projects. I've had my hands on virtually any small engine/machine manufactured in the past 40 years.

Honda like other manufacturers have both consumer and commercial grade lawnmowers. Their commercial line of mowers is a great line of mowers. Honda decks are no better or worse than several other mowers on the market. The Honda GX/siblings series engines are without a doubt as good as it gets when it comes to small engines. They would certainly be my first choice when choosing a walk behind mower engine. On the other hand, the GT/siblings series of engines (consumer grade) have more than their share of problems, particularly in the carbaration (choke) department as well as sticking valves. Should you own one of these engines long enough you will likely "pay" to own it. If you gave me one of these engines I would find a way to politely walk away from it. This is no slam on Honda but they aren't "GOLDEN" across the board, like anything else you have to pick and choose.

One last comment for the OP. The Tecumseh engines that had phenolic/plastic carb bowls definitely had problems with ethanol fuels. These had a couple of small O-Rings in them that would swell and cause fuel delivery problems. A good tech would definitely know what to look for here and you shouldn't have seen a problem the next time you ran the mower. It takes time to damage the O-Rings.

Living in the NW I am another who swears by Stay-Bil and tightly capped gas cans. That and you have to run them dry in the Fall.

Those Tecumseh engines were never any good anyway. Your new Honda engine will probably outlast the mower deck.

Acmemfg said:

Finally got a bellyfull of my Toro GTS (uh huh) with the sickly Tecumseh engine which the local dealer refused to fix under warranty because it was "bad fuel". After $91 and selling me a few gallons of his "ethanol free" fuel (because that is what supposedly caused this engine to run like crap), same thing next time I attempted to use it. Granted, ethanol fuel is not small engine friendly but this was NOT the cause of the problem. Solution? New dealer and new mower. Honda HRR 216 was on sale and the other dealer (although 20 miles away) got my business. Guess we'll see how she treats the turf later this week.

Side note to you small business owners out there:

Never treat your customer like a chump and presume he doesn't know anything about your product. I rebuilt more than my share of engines over the years and didn't appreciate a $91 bill and condescending explanation for what was an obvious carburetion problem not necessarily caused by fuel. He lost a nice profit on a new mower sale and was bestowed with the guarantee I will diss him and his operation to anyone I can.

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What was the $91 charge for? Rebuilt carburettor/fuel lines?

We have a circa 2004 Sears Craftsman mower that's been a tank. It's the basic model (non self-propelled, no throttle) but it has a 7 HP Briggs that starts everytime and powers through everything. The deck is starting to develop a little bit of surface rust but that's probably my fault for never cleaning the mower.

My brother's neighbor gave him a 20 year old Honda mower that still runs great. My brother's a Honda nut (only buys Honda cars).

I hope you enjoy the Honda as much I like mine.

In Massachusetts you cannot get ethanol free gas at the gas station. In all my 2 stroke engines I use Trufuel.

Acmemfg said:

Tecumseh engine

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I found your problem. Run, don't walk, away from any piece of equipment with a Tecumseh motor.

Consider a battery operated mower. Dad got one five years ago after getting fed up with pulling the cord to start (or not, quite often) a gas mower. He loves that all he has to do to start it is flick the switch and go! Plenty of juice to do the 1/3 acre property. Plug it in to recharge when done. The mower is now on its second battery.

Honda makes a nice mower. I have had a steel deck commercial with the 5.5 HP engine going on 25 years now and it is still working as well as the day I first pulled the starter rope.

I think you should consider a Joris. Honda's don't cut as close.