Simpson LE 2-Band Butterscotch Duke 3

That knot does look less dense. You may want to contact Simpson's because it may have been one that slipped through with an underweight knot.

Overall there is so much voodoo marketing in brushes almost have to take a leap of faith when you buy a brush. Just buy one with the characteristics, performance and feel that you like. Don't get caught up in all the hype. Simpson's makes fantastic brushes, I know I own 10, but they are marketing a product also. I have always been curious about Simpson Manchurian brushes. Never bought one mainly because of what Mark said some years ago on another forum.

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:30 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen,

For the purposes of this debate.

We define our shaving brushes by three grades of hair:

Pure Badger (Best)

Super Badger (The best of the Best if you like which has been bleached)

Silvertip Badger (Currently only produced for bespoke brushes but coming soon ... watch this space)

As one of the oldest and most respected manufacturers in the world we pride ourselves on our hand made (not machine made) shaving brushes and our honesty when defining the differing grades of badger hair.

To blatantly accuse other manufacturers of grading their Badger hair incorrectly would be wrong of us, but needless to say, we do feel that the majority, including the big name producers are being economic with the truth.

The vast majority of manufacturers import their hair from the same sources in China and we know from first hand experience that genuine Silvertip hair is extremely difficult to come by. It is only available in very small quantities and it would be near on impossible to mass produce Shaving Brushes filled in genuine Silvertip as some claim.

The best example of all is the mythical Manchurian Badger. Marketing at it's absolute finest !

Rest assured, Vulfix operate a totally transparent manufacturing policy and we are happy to set the record straight.

Vulfix Old Original

Click to expand...

Wow.

A very honest assessment. For me the Simpson Manchurian is also in the " not worth it category" . It's a very good brush, mine is a Tulip 3 that is a joy to use but I have brushes that cost quite a bit less that are just as satisfying to use. Simpson has found a niche with these limited runs and seems to be doing well with them

That said, I really really like my bespoke M7 in Manchurian Badger.

It was expensive and probably too expensive.
But it is also a marvellous brush and in an overcrowded den one of my all time favorites.

Return it to simpson, seriously !

Or, perhaps, see if they can stick a denser knot in the butterscotch Duke handle for you. I'm not sure if such things can be asked of them, but it sounds as if the problem is with the expectations of the knot and that you may be plenty pleased to have an LE Butterscotch Duke in your possession on the aesthetic level and perhaps, too, as a collector's piece(?) It does seem to be the case that Simpsons have a collector appeal. (look at how much $$ some of the older ones bring in on eBay), and as long as there are collector-types there are going to be prices that don't, to a degree, reflect functionality.

I agree that it would good to know just how limited these brushes are. Perhaps someone knows?

One good thing is that this brush should (for the time being) retain a good resale value. There have been two recent sales of the exact same Duke in the B/S/T within a week of each other, and both of them, from what I recall sold quickly at a relatively minimal loss for the buyer.

I've read a "not sure if it was worth the money" thread on "The Hive" and Manchurian Rover as well.

rebos said:

Or, perhaps, see if they can stick a denser knot in the butterscotch Duke handle for you. I'm not sure if such things can be asked of them, but it sounds as if the problem is with the expectations of the knot and that you may be plenty pleased to have an LE Butterscotch Duke in your possession on the aesthetic level and perhaps, too, as a collector's piece(?) It does seem to be the case that Simpsons have a collector appeal. (look at how much $$ some of the older ones bring in on eBay), and as long as there are collector-types there are going to be prices that don't, to a degree, reflect functionality.

Click to expand...

Of course, the older ones are true "butterscotch" and were made by Simpson's in London or (more likely) Somerset.

I agree that it would good to know just how limited these brushes are. Perhaps someone knows?

Click to expand...

One issue that Rudy brought up is that since these brushes aren't numbered - unlike (say) the Semogue LEs, or the B&B LEs over the years that Rudy and Kent have made - it's not clear how many there are. So some of these "limited editions" could just be marketing speak for "more expensive." Unless Simpsons is going the Astor route and stating that "only X will be made", you can't be sure.

Also, even for previous LEs, Simpsons has gone ahead and made bespoke brushes. The Eagle 2 in Best, a LE used as a fundraiser here on B&B, can be ordered from them and with the same engraving, it will just cost more. So what's the value of a LE brush when you can buy a new one? Not as much.

Very well written Mark. You make some very legitimate points regarding price vs what you get in the end. This is the exact reason I chose Lee in making a butterscotch Chubby for me vs paying $360ish I believe for a Chubby 2 in 'scotch. That's insane!!!!! Let me clarify that I absolutely love my Simpson brushes and wouldn't trade my Chubby 2 for the world. There is no justification in charging a hundred dollars more for a different color handle, period.

squatzilla801 said:

Yes, somehow it's become taboo to express anything but a stellar review of a Simpson brush or Italian soap (some of which I love). Too often, I see these views get marginalized or flamed. Great post Mark, I think you're spot on about the Rooney. I must say, Mark is also one of the most gracious, helpful guys on this board.

Click to expand...

Exactly right on each point.

But if I could afford an ivory speck Chubby 2 Super I would buy it immediatly

Folks have to keep up with the Jones'.... and the Jones' said Limited Edition whatever is the in-thing. No matter how limited, as long as the guys making it say it's limited. Put a Simpsons sticker on it, and it's especially in. Don't hate Simpsons too much for it though. They are following the lead of Semogue.

bobfarvour said:

Folks have to keep up with the Jones'.... and the Jones' said Limited Edition whatever is the in-thing. No matter how limited, as long as the guys making it say it's limited. Put a Simpsons sticker on it, and it's especially in. Don't hate Simpsons too much for it though. They are following the lead of Semogue.

Click to expand...

Semogue LEs are actually LE though - they're numbered and they don't come back into production.

Simpsons makes great brushes, I LOVE them, I have many, but these LE brushes aggravate me. I am super disappointed that they aren't numbering these allegedly "Limited Editions" by definition. Again, I think Simpsons makes the best brushes in the world. But at least Semogue numbers a LE brush, not just proclaim it as such and make as many as there are customers. I have a real hard time with the whole $75 difference between the "LE" 2 band Duke 3 I could buy at Shaving.ie and the colored "butterscotch" version of brush sold as an "LE" by the Simpsons home website.

This is a really good thread and has helped to recalibrate me a bit - sort of like getting smacked upside the head with a "Snap out of it!". I don't have a Simpson (sold the only one I had) and was maybe considering an LE but definitely not now. I may still get a Simpson but it won't be an LE version.

It used to be that the Duke 3 had near enough the equivalent knot size/density of a Chubby 1 and if you preferred the larger handle that would be the better option, that knot "looks" a little spartan so you'd have every right to complain if that is the case. As for paying a premium for a different colored handle well that's pretty much all it is, personally I think Simpson are devaluing the brand for short term gain by extending the range as much as they have and I've now seen so many Simpson LE's they have little or no kudos to me.

Perhaps you mentioned it somewhere but the LE brush looks wet on the pictures and all the other ones looks dry no ?

Please let me clarify a few things that have been brought up in this thread. I put "limited edition" in quotes as I didn't really consider it limited by other than what Simpson could sell. I'm not a collector, so this was not a factor in my purchase decision; I really don't care if a brush is a LE or not. While a compelling argument can be made that a big premium for orange resin over ivory is not justified, that too was not my central point. I've wanted a Duke3 2-band for some time and thought the one in ersatz butterscotch was a sweet looking brush (and still think that). I have a significant number of Simpson brushes and some of them are among the best brushes I've ever owned. I still believe they are in the pantheon of brush makers. All this made my disappointment in the clearly substandard knot in this brush all the more acute. I do believe that when Simpson offers a brush at a material premium over the standard model that they have an obligation to insure that it's overall quality is consistent with that higher price. My feeling was that they failed to do that in this case with this brush. I confined most of my comments to density (no, the brush was not wet and when wet and in use the light packing becomes even more apparent) as this is the least subjective judgment. What finally caused me to write this post was the loan of a friend's Duke 3 2-band. Everything about his knot was different, from the density to the feel of the hair to the loft and overall shape of the bulb. To say it was superior would be the under-statement of the year.

Exactly. It's tempting for a guy like me to throw a fit over their pricing, but the real reason for doing so is that I can't afford them. I get mad at BMW for the same reason. But they and the market get to determine the fair price for their product. If their margin increases over these special editions, good for them, and they can call them whatever they want. The point here is, if it's a premium brush, it better not be some random knot plugged into a special handle.

Face&Head said:

What finally caused me to write this post was the loan of a friend's Duke 3 2-band. Everything about his knot was different, from the density to the feel of the hair to the loft and overall shape of the bulb. To say it was superior would be the under-statement of the year.

Click to expand...

This, for me, is the most compelling statement in this thread. You should contact Simpsons (Progress-Vulfix) with this information and see if they don't offer to swap brushes with you.

This thread makes quite apparent the differences in members' attitudes toward the purchase of their shaving gear, and I am not intending to be critical either way. Some of us buy for the exclusivity of an item. Others buy for the aesthetic appeal of an item. Others for the item's functionality. Really, I think we buy items for all three reasons, with each weighing differently in our consideration. I am not going to knock someone for weighing these considerations differently than me and subsequently spending more or less money. And I'm not going to knock a manufacturer for recognizing this and capitalizing on it. It is what it is.

And what about semantics? Would it change things if Simpsons called these Limited Edition brushes "Limited Production" or "Special Run" or "Exclusive?" Regarding other brush manufacturers that actually number their LE brushes - how "limited" are these limited editions if they come out with a new run of 100 or so LEs every year? Or if they start with a goal of 50 numbered brushes then up that to 100 because they realize that's about how many they could sell?

Face&Head said:

What finally caused me to write this post was the loan of a friend's Duke 3 2-band. Everything about his knot was different, from the density to the feel of the hair to the loft and overall shape of the bulb. To say it was superior would be the under-statement of the year.

Click to expand...

Is it possible to have pictures of both brushes to compare the density differences?

You guys do know that Mark from Simpson visits the forums here? I completely agree that if a manufacturer is going to charge a premium for a "special" brush then it ought to be at least as good as its regular ones. I was shopping for a brush last month and when I saw this one on the Simpson site I was really tempted-until I saw that I could get virtually the same brush in the standard color for so much less from shaving.ie. And the thing is, when Simspon sells directly to the customer their margin is higher than when they sell to a vendor.