Newb trying to hone a razor

[shakin_jake]

I'll do a few dozen more X-strokes on the 1k I guess.

ETA: Ordered a 20X loupe.

YES! It pops arm (leg, actually, my hair growth is pretty poor, so my arms are tough to test on, but I think it worked there too) hair now, with spine against skin and blade raised ever so slightly up.

~~~Okay, great!, sounds like the bevels may be where they need to be

Now what? Should I wait for my coticule slurry stone and polish it with that?

~~~I would. Never heard of anyone shaving off a 3K hone (your highest grit hone). I recall reading some routinely shaving off 8K Nortons regularly, and IIRC, Paco said he used to shave off a 6 K

There are coticulers that will correct the bevel (w/slurried coti) then go straight to coticule with water, and hone on water only to finish (completion). You could do that but using slurry w/dilutions as per Bart's information here- http://www.coticule.be/dilucot-honing-method.html is the more popular way to go

Another reason to wait for your slurry stone to arrive before going any further...you can double check how well you established the bevel by using the coticule w/slurry for final bevel correction. That's how I do it (coming off 1K synthetic stones) and the slurried coticule will make the transition from your synthetic bevel to a coticule bevel smoother

Yes so if you clearly see your blade popping arm hair easier than what you now have, *after* going over the edge with slurried coticule, then you'll know your current bevel (where it is now) isn't up to snuff. This is the stage N00b honers (bevel correction) get hasty and wonder why further down the progression the edge wont come around


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[Tubba]

Hmm... Okay, I'll go with your plan, Jake.

There's another matter that needs to be taken care of - the damage on my coticule. It's some pretty shallow cuts in it. What's the easiest way to remove those? Slurry stone? The naniwa?

[shakin_jake]

I have a duo-sharp (325/600) DMT that gets used for lapping coticules...I have also used (both sides) for straight razor bevel correction when there's mucho work for a 1K syn stone...if you have one lying around, that's what i would use to lap any coticule

If you don't have access to a DMT plate, and many here use other DMT products and not duo sharp plates (some don't like the perforations on the duo sharp) you can lap your coticule with sandpaper placing the sand paper on a flat surface...make sure you keep it wet using water the whole time you lap

Most glass surfaces are fairly flat (window panes). As an aside, I used to lap closer shims (air-cooled desmo motor), valve shims in my last house downstairs on a sliding glass doorwall (vertically). I used a fine wet/dry paper (emory) with a little bit of oil on the surface, held the shim between thumb and fore finger and do figure 8's checking periodically with a micromter until i reached desired size, right up on the glass door wall

I've never lapped a coticule with sandpaper but those that do find a flat surface and keep the paper/coticule wet, so you can then do circles, figure 8's back and forth, sideways. I take that back. I lapped my Cretan hone using 60 grit for a bit, wet/dry paper, then back to my DMT

Coticules are softer than Cretan hones so I'd start out with a higher grit paper than 60, but you could use 60, 80, 100 for fast removal so long as you keep your eye on how fast you're cutting the top of the stone. Most of my coticules have 10 + mm's of surface and will probably outlive me but if you use a low grit sand paper to lap with, check often to guage progress so you don't remove too much...only remove what is necessary to get rid of the shallow cuts you say yours has

What kind/grit of paper do you have access to or what do you have lying around? You'd want to finish up with 320 (at least) I'd reckon

One other thing...when you get to the finish step with your sand paper, to ensure it is flat, mark X's and straight lines all around on top of the coti (using a lead pencil) then sand till the pencil marks are gone. Some call this pencil gridding. It's a visual aid so you can verify (see) that the surface is flat, and you could do this twice to finish up...& I'd use wet/dry paper if you have it, and rinse the stone well when you are through to make sure no traces of sand paper grit is left in the stone

*If* you have any sand paper grit on top of the coticule or embedded in the surface, no matter how shallow, that grit will muck up your razor's edge, which is why you do not want to use sand paper to raise a coticule slurry (while honing), and it would be a very good idea to take your slurry stone and rub the surface of the coticule thoroughly w/water (rinse well) to eliminate errant particles of sandpaper that may have been left behind. This can't be stressed enough

Just to recap, I'd try to use 280/320 grit wet/dry paper (first) if you're going to use sand paper for lapping (your coticule). Coarser grits may necessarily leave scratch marks in the coti's surface that are hard to remove with higher grits. You might even use a 400 grit or so for final lapping



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[Tubba]

Let's see... The only sand paper I know I have is fine (~1000 grit) stuff for polishing the models I sometimes build... But I think I have some coarser stuff in the garage somewhere, I'll have a look tomorrow.

I've got a marble countertop in the kitchen, I think that'll be a perfect surface for fixing the stone.

[Kentos]

You are getting great advice! Sounds like you are getting closer to a shave ready edge.

[Tubba]

I'm trying to understand the Dilucot method in the mean while, but there's one part of the theory I don't get - What's the point of dulling the edge with a glass object? Does one know that they are done once the razor shaves arm hair even after being dulled by glass?

[Slash McCoy]

I'm trying to understand the Dilucot method in the mean while, but there's one part of the theory I don't get - What's the point of dulling the edge with a glass object? Does one know that they are done once the razor shaves arm hair even after being dulled by glass?

Essentially, yes. After it shaves again, and does so along the entire blade, you give it another couple dozen laps to be sure and that stage is done. You can move up in your progression, whether that means adding more water to your coti slurry or moving to a finer synthetic.

Pass the edge LIGHTLY over the glass, though. You aren't looking for major edge destruction... just a slight dulling so you can tell the difference and know when the bevel is restored.

[shakin_jake]

Tubba, When Bart (coticule.be) says to dull the edge of the razor on glass, the point of this is so when you begin to perform the dilucot, you start with a dull edge. It's always best to eliminate the edge you have before creating a new one. Why?, because if you start with a shaving edge, you wont know what you created with a shaving edge *already* in place. Start anew!

You can verify if the edge is dull after moving it across glass (like the mouth/opening of a beer bottle) by trying to shave arm hair. If you have successfully dulled the edge, it will no longer shave arm hair

But there is such a thing as putting too much pressure on the edge when you move it across glass to dull. Only apply the weight of the razor when dulling on glass. Never exert additional force. If the edge still cuts arm hair after you drag ity acorss glass once, go back and drag it across the glass once or twice more. That should dull it (2 or 3 X's)

And just to be clear, your razor should not shave arm hair if you were successful dulling it on glass, but whatever you do, do not apply force to the razor when dulling it, otherwise you can damage the edge to the point it will take a lot of metal removal to get it to the point where it will shave arm hair again. That would be a waste of your time and add unnecessary wear to your razor's spine and edge


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[Tubba]

So now that I have an established bevel from the 1k, should I just dull it and move on to stage 2 in the dilucot process?

[shakin_jake]

No, do not dull the blade. Those instructions (to dull the blade) are written for those that have a razor that is shave ready and they're wanting to put an entirely new edge on the blade

So, if you have established your bevels (totally, completely), finish up with the dilucot process, but do not dull the edge, okay?


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[Tubba]

All right, thanks.


Oh, I got my loupe today, very useful. The bevel looked mostly even, and "scratched", like I expected it to. The one part that wasn't even, near the toe, I corrected with some quick half-stroke localised honing on the 1k.

[shakin_jake]

You're moving along very well....you have what it takes to be a successful coticuler Using 1/2 strokes to catch up a portion of the blade (& using slight pressure w/your finger there) is a very good stradegy, on syn 1K or slurried coticule, but the 1 K will be faster. Sounds like we'll be hearing about your first shave with this razor shortly



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

[Tubba]

Noticed some spotty rust when going over it with the loupe... Probably wiped it sloppily. I polished the blade with an oxalic acid solution, removing the rust spots and leaving that lovely patina oxalic acid leaves.


What's the standard method of treating rust on blades? Plain sanding?