Shaving and Jewish law

[daverasi]

Very interesting and thought provoking thread gentlemen!

[SiBurning]

I am not trying to throw a monkey wrench into the works ....but what about my signature with it's verse?

"And you, son of man, take a sharp sword, take it as a barber’s razor, and pass it over your head and your beard." Ezekiel 5:1

This is kind of a separate issue. Son of man is a pejorative, contrasted with son of god. In essence, this seems to mean to go act like a godless person, and mourn like the pagans because the sons of god (Israel, or any righteous person generally) are acting like sons of man, anyway. It also has the double meaning that they should show themselves to be adulterers (as I mentioned above, shaving half the face was the punishment) following other gods. IIRC, Ezekiel also rolled around in sackcloth and ash. He was always pretty flipped out. Today, he'd be in a padded cell. Basically, this is just part of his theatrics approach.

[pipskicks]

This is kind of a separate issue. Son of man is a pejorative, contrasted with son of god. In essence, this seems to mean to go act like a godless person, and mourn like the pagans because the sons of god (Israel, or any righteous person generally) are acting like sons of man, anyway. It also has the double meaning that they should show themselves to be adulterers (as I mentioned above, shaving half the face was the punishment) following other gods. IIRC, Ezekiel also rolled around in sackcloth and ash. He was always pretty flipped out. Today, he'd be in a padded cell. Basically, this is just part of his theatrics approach.

To add a source:
http://www.lovethelord.com/books/ezekiel/05.html

C&P: "God calls Ezekiel son of man. Ezekiel is the instrument God uses
to show what he will do to His people. This sharp knife and razor areboth representative of the judgement of God. Ezekiel was a priest andwas not generally to cut his hair, or his beard. Each one of the hairsrepresent individuals who make up the nation of Judah. The judgementis against all. The dividing of the hair shows that not all will fallunder the exact same punishment. Each hair {individual} suffers, butnot all of them in the same way. A woman's head was shaved when shewas found guilty of adultery. These strands of hair represent the wifeof God {Israel}. They have committed spiritual adultery by worshippingfalse gods."

[SiBurning]

If they only shaved women for adultery, part of my theory falls apart, and it no longer follows that a clean shaven man was an anomaly. OTOH, shaving half a man's head was certainly used as punishment in some places, though I don't know where or for what crime. (I wouldn't be surprised if it were Greece.)

[ateace]

Thanks for all of the information! This is VERY interesting reading. While not necessarily a proponent of organized religion, neither do oppose it and respect the rights of individuals to practice it in a manner in which they see fit. So much can be open to interpretation that it's fascinating to read how individuals view history and tradition.

Excellent thread.

I do not practice the religion in which I was raised, but I admire the thought, discussion and debate regarding the interpretation and practice of ancient religious laws.

[pipskicks]

If they only shaved women for adultery, part of my theory falls apart, and it no longer follows that a clean shaven man was an anomaly. OTOH, shaving half a man's head was certainly used as punishment in some places, though I don't know where or for what crime. (I wouldn't be surprised if it were Greece.)

Oh you were right, the "dividing of the hair" refers to that I believe. I'm not sure on the adultery thing, I didn't read enough to get the full context of the text and don't remember it really, I just looked it up and it seemed to follow your reasoning.

[pipskicks]

More reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaving_in_Judaism

And it does say: "However, there were exceptions, with the Book of Ezekiel itself adding that priests should keep their hair trimmed,^[5] and Leviticus arguing that, in certain cases of tzaraath, the beard and hair should be completely shaved away.^[6] Numbers(Ch. 6) additionally requires that Nazarites shave their heads, 7 days after any contact with corpses.<sup>[7]"


So there may be some exceptions done in history, not sure if that means anything or not though.</sup>

[Oblique Human]

I'm a Muslim. My faith prohibits consumption of pork. We have various religious schools of thought and I asked around about how faith-safe!?! a bore brush would be. The majority consensus was that using the hair or skin of a boar are permissible. But even if I had received a different answer, I would have still used the boars.

[ackvil]

Like some others have said, great thread. Always find fascinating the historical perspective.

[SiBurning]

Here's another complication I ran into today.

Early on, say 1000bce, Israelites tended to wear their hair and beards long, which was typical of the entire region from the Mediterranean to Persia. Later on, in Roman times, they tended towards short, neatly trimmed hair and beards. I don't know when or why the change occurred, but it might correspond to the later power of the priesthood and sanhedrin (their parliament), or possibly even the return from Persia. It makes it harder to understand when these laws were made, how they were applied, etc. It does suggest that the hair cutting prohibitions may have originally only applied to the priesthood, and were only later adopted by everyone. On the other hand, I find it hard to stretch this point to its conclusion, which would be that scarring and tatooing were only prohibited for priests. Not that it matters, since there was no way to actually enforce it on the general public.

Another way to look at it is that early on when people wore their hair and beards long, the issue didn't arise, since only the priests cut their hair close. The question only arose for the general public later on when the fashion changed to short hair and trimmed beards.

[mblakele]

If they only shaved women for adultery, part of my theory falls apart, and it no longer follows that a clean shaven man was an anomaly. OTOH, shaving half a man's head was certainly used as punishment in some places, though I don't know where or for what crime. (I wouldn't be surprised if it were Greece.)

You may not be so far off. Would 2 Samuel 10:4 help?

Wherefore Hanun took David's servants, and shaved off the one half of their beards, and cut off their garments in the middle, even to their buttocks, and sent them away.

This sounds to me like a fairly generic badge of shame, the rough equivalent of a dunce cap or of the USA prisons that make convicts wear pink clothing. Shaving or half-shaving as punishment for men is still known to happen in the Muslim world. It could have also been brought into Greece through Ottoman influence, I suppose.

http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/254370

Nine men in Kuwait had their heads shaved by the police after they were caught harassing women in shopping malls.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1225704125034

"I was with three other friends in my car, listening to music when armed Taliban stopped us and, after smashing cassettes and the cassette player, they shaved half our heads and moustaches,'' he said.

Getting back to Greece, the ancient Greeks would cut or shave their hair as a funeral custom, as you probably know. I have seen this explained as a way to make the mourners unrecognizable to the ghost, or as a tribute to the departed. Judaic law may have been trying to prohibit the latter practice, assuming it was also current with non-Jewish neighbors.

Or maybe you are remembering what Plutarch wrote about Demosthenes?

Hereupon he built himself a place to study in under ground (which was still remaining in our time), and hither he would come constantly every day to form his action and to exercise his voice; and here he would continue, oftentimes without intermission, two or three months together, shaving one half of his head, that so for shame he might not go abroad, though he desired it ever so much.

At this distance it may be impossible to say for certain why Judaic law included these prohibitions - or exactly what they prohibit. http://www.myjewishlearning.com/prac.../Tattoos.shtml has some interested discussion on tattoos, for example. My own instinct is that the Judaic prohibitions were aimed primarily at idolatry: the ancient world was full of cults that practiced various forms of tattooing, scarring, and ritual mutilation. Even today, various social groups sometimes still mark their members in some way. You can look at circumcision as one of those, if you like. Perhaps the original idea was something like "you will mark yourself as a member of our group, and you will not mark yourself as a member of any other"?

[SiBurning]

Getting back to Greece, the ancient Greeks would cut or shave their hair as a funeral custom, as you probably know. I have seen this explained as a way to make the mourners unrecognizable to the ghost, or as a tribute to the departed. Judaic law may have been trying to prohibit the latter practice, assuming it was also current with non-Jewish neighbors.

It's not uncommon in primitive cultures (see Frazier's Golden Bough) to cut the hair, nails, etc. and bury or burn it to trick the ghost into believing the person is dead and buried (or burned in a funeral pyre), which is pretty much another version of what you said. It seems a stretch to link this particular purpose with the biblical prohibition. OTOH, many of these prohibitions were specifically intended to stop people from practicing magic/sorcery/divination/etc, so perhaps there is some link.

[ouch]

I completely agree! For one more famous example, observant Jews were basically left out of many of the larger sweeping plagues since they prepared meat and un-meat in separate cooking ware. This kept them safe from bacteria and diseases that none of their contemporaries understood at the time.

But not, unfortunately, from their contemporaries.

[pipskicks]

I'm a Muslim. My faith prohibits consumption of pork. We have various religious schools of thought and I asked around about how faith-safe!?! a bore brush would be. The majority consensus was that using the hair or skin of a boar are permissible. But even if I had received a different answer, I would have still used the boars.

I thought you weren't supposed to benefit off anything of the pig in Judaism, I'm not 100% sure, but we wouldn't eat gelatin products, it was very strict. Shaving being against the rule aside, I think the Boar brush might be an additional problem. They make rules about everything!

[pipskicks]

I thought you weren't supposed to benefit off anything of the pig in Judaism, I'm not 100% sure, but we wouldn't eat gelatin products, it was very strict. Shaving being against the rule aside, I think the Boar brush might be an additional problem. They make rules about everything!

Scratch that, only eating it.

[mblakele]

It's not uncommon in primitive cultures (see Frazier's Golden Bough) to cut the hair, nails, etc. and bury or burn it to trick the ghost into believing the person is dead and buried (or burned in a funeral pyre), which is pretty much another version of what you said. It seems a stretch to link this particular purpose with the biblical prohibition. OTOH, many of these prohibitions were specifically intended to stop people from practicing magic/sorcery/divination/etc, so perhaps there is some link.

Something along those lines, yes. But I am thinking about this primarily in terms of preventing idolatry - and secondarily in terms of group identification.

By analogy if you joined a modern group of atheists, they might give you a hard time for throwing a pinch of salt over your shoulder, or knocking on wood, or observing Lent. You might not do those things with any religious belief in mind, but they suggest that you are not fully on board with the program.

[SiBurning]

I see what you mean. I just don't see any way to prove the intent of the hair part in any rigorous way that would constitute historical proof. It seems everyone's agreed that anything approaching proof for the reasoning behind it is missing. All we can do is conjecture.

The one thing that lends credibility to this idea is the context of Leviticus 19. First, (in 19.2) it's clearly addressed to the entire nation. Verses 26-29 address things that occur in Canaanite temples, including drinking blood, magical practices, and prostitution. The haircut and tatoos are right in the middle of that stuff. While highly suggestive, it's still rather thin. At the very least, I'd like to see proof that these things had some ritual or symbolic significance that was deemed repulsive.

Then again, this probably isn't of general interest.

[Face&Head]

The Jewish Law known as Halakah is not a synonym for tradition or custom. It has three sources, the first of which is the Torah (Bible). From this you get 613 Mitzot (commandments) of which the shaving prohibition is one (as pointed out above in Leviticus). There are 248 positive and 365 negative Mitzvot. Second, is the Talmud, a Rabbinic interpratation of many things but containing additional Mitzvot that are often thought of as helping the observant keep from violating the Torah Mitzvot. Think of it as a fence around the really important commandments. This is where you might find the blade reference. Finally there is custom which can vary between Ashkenazi & Sephardic Judaism. Except for the Orthodox the last is the most flexible in its interpratation.

[Domminigan]

Scratch that, only eating it.

I tend to avoid nibbling on my Boar brushes myself, but YMMV.

[Granaura]

613 Mitzot (commandments)???? Gasp...

Sadly, most people can remember the simple (and rather important) 10 commandments. I would shiver if they had to remember 613!

Imagine the tablets poor Moses had to cart down listing those!!!

Edit : Having read the 613 Mitzot, they are rather interesting. Not all that "politically correct" for the current time (such as inter-marriage being forbidden), but very in depth.