Need a good source for 90% C3H7OH (rubbing alcohol)

**inspiringK** · 06-04-2012, 05:34 PM

Interesting, I just asked my local bacteria expert and personal alarm snooze button hitter, she also says that they actually buy 95% for the lab but then dilute it down to 70% before using it to clean up.

Edit: she was less convincing when I asked her why I can't also just get my shaving iso alcohol from her lab...

**PhiGam** · 06-04-2012, 07:57 PM

B.S. in Biochemistry, M.S. in nutritional sciencs, M.A.T. in Science Education here.

Many years as a molcular biologist in research labs, and a while as a chemistry teacher.

Alcohols tend to be hygroscopic (they absorb water from their surroundings)

70% EtOH or Isopropyl are used for disinfecting, 100% is used for drying or sometimes dissolving non-polar compounds.

I have oodles of 100% EtOH and 99% isopropyl in my high school chem lab. We'd go through gallons in my university and industry labs.

Not only is the stuff dirt cheap, and pure (not denatured), but easy to get and replace. I'd give it to my SWMBO if she asked. Hell, I probably wasted more in some months than a shaver would use in a year. Tissue culture labs are notorius for 'oversterilizing', as the consequences are a PITA.

Ask her again....

;)

Originally Posted by inspiringK

Interesting, I just asked my local bacteria expert and personal alarm snooze button hitter, she also says that they actually buy 95% for the lab but then dilute it down to 70% before using it to clean up.

Edit: she was less convincing when I asked her why I can't also just get my shaving iso alcohol from her lab...

**sempra** · 06-04-2012, 08:09 PM

If its not denatured, do you have to keep it under lock and key? I am assuming that not "denatured" means you can drink it????

Originally Posted by PhiGam

B.S. in Biochemistry, M.S. in nutritional sciencs, M.A.T. in Science Education here.

Many years as a molcular biologist in research labs, and a while as a chemistry teacher.

Alcohols tend to be hygroscopic (they absorb water from their surroundings)

70% EtOH or Isopropyl are used for disinfecting, 100% is used for drying or sometimes dissolving non-polar compounds.

I have oodles of 100% EtOH and 99% isopropyl in my high school chem lab. We'd go through gallons in my university and industry labs.

Not only is the stuff dirt cheap, and pure (not denatured), but easy to get and replace. I'd give it to my SWMBO if she asked. Hell, I probably wasted more in some months than a shaver would use in a year. Tissue culture labs are notorius for 'oversterilizing', as the consequences are a PITA.

Ask her again....

;)

**Retiredgene** · 06-04-2012, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by sempra

Most of the isopropyl alcohol that you see in stores is 70% concentration. Occasionally you will find the 90% concentration, and I usually buy a bottle or two when I find the 90%.

However, I am running low on my 90% and have been looking to resupply. I have checked Wally World, Target, CVS, Walgreen, grocery stores, etc. but have not found any 90%. Is it still being sold? Have you seen any for sale anywhere lately? If you know of a vendor who regularly stocks it, please let me know where you last found it.

Thanks
Mitch

Mitch - late to the thread and confirming what others stated. Mrs Gene / aka SWMBO, asked me to get some "rubbing alcohol" today at the store and it was in our local supermarket here in the Boston area. They carried 3 concentrations, 50%, 70% and 91% and so I asked the pharmacist that was on duty about them. He asked what it was to be used for, I said general cleaning solution and he said get the 70%, it would do the job fine.

Gene

**GreekGuy** · 06-04-2012, 08:17 PM

The OP is asking about rubbing alcohol, also known as Isopropyl alcohol. This is NOT the same thing as ethanol, or what we refer to as alcohol, as in beverages. Isopropanol is toxic if ingested

**GreekGuy** · 06-04-2012, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by sempra

If its not denatured, do you have to keep it under lock and key? I am assuming that not "denatured" means you can drink it????

Consuming it at such concentrations is not only dangerous, but using it for personal consumption is a major felony. For what its worth

**sempra** · 06-04-2012, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by GreekGuy

Consuming it at such concentrations is not only dangerous, but using it for personal consumption is a major felony. For what its worth

Hey man, look at my location(s). I know a little about 'shine! :) The Feds and locals want their tax, and the ATF has quotas to meet.

Mitch

**superbleu** · 06-04-2012, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by sempra

If its not denatured, do you have to keep it under lock and key? I am assuming that not "denatured" means you can drink it????

and this is how people go blind.

**sempra** · 06-04-2012, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by superbleu

and this is how people go blind.

That's methanol or wood alcohol a/k/a Sterno to the winos...

**diverdoug** · 06-04-2012, 09:27 PM

Isopropyl alcohol and its metabolite, acetone, act as central nervous system (CNS) depressants. Symptoms of isopropyl alcohol poisoning include flushing, headache, dizziness, CNS depression, nausea, vomiting, anesthesia, and coma. Poisoning can occur from ingestion, inhalation, or absorption; therefore, well-ventilated areas and protective gloves are recommended. Around 15 g of isopropyl alcohol can have a toxic effect on a 70 kg human if left untreated

**GreekGuy** · 06-04-2012, 09:30 PM

Not that I would do it, but the only Lab Ethanol I would even consider drinking, if it was the apocalypse, would be HPLC grade. I don't trust the non-denatured type. It isn't intended for consumption or for quantitative chemistry. It doesn't take many contaminants to cause serious effects.

**cb91710** · 06-09-2012, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by GreekGuy

Not that I would do it, but the only Lab Ethanol I would even consider drinking, if it was the apocalypse, would be HPLC grade. I don't trust the non-denatured type. It isn't intended for consumption or for quantitative chemistry. It doesn't take many contaminants to cause serious effects.

It doesn't take much high-proof alcohol to cause some serious effects.

Got a bottle of Everclear for cleaning the pipes.
Never tried it neat.
Won't try it neat (or over ice) again... and will most likely never use it as a mixer.

SWMBO thinks that Cragganmore and Maker's Mark taste like gasoline.
Everclear tastes like jet fuel!

**Rev. Jim Ignatowski** · 06-09-2012, 12:13 PM

Some bullet-point notes on alcohols:

Methanol and isopropyl alcohol can be very toxic. Do not ingest in any way. Same goes for the less widely used n-propyl alcohol.
Denatured alcohols contain materials to make the ethanol very toxic. Do not ingest in any manor. This goes for the fully denatured alcohols and the specially denatured alcohols.
70% is ideal for killing bacteria, but it will not kill spores. (Some pharmaceutical grade alcohol used for disinfecting skin is sterilized to kill any spore-based pathogens.)
HPLC grade ethanol, and other spectrophotometric and chromotography grade ethanol are very pure, but their are traceability and tax issues associated with their use (in the US anyway).

I use Golden Grain and Everclear to sterilize my beer making fermentation trap. 90 to 95% ethanol, no denaturants. Excellent at killing yeast, bacteria, but will also not kill spores.
Don't know how anybody would drink that stuff, as it burns like crazy.

**TheSC** · 06-09-2012, 12:17 PM

We bought a bottle of Everclear and did shots before... never again.

OP, I'm up in North AL and they have the 91% alcohol at Wal-Mart for about the same price as the 70%. I fail to understand how 70% alcohol is better at killing things than 91%. That high of a concentration I'm fairly sure it will kill almost anything. If 70% and 20% water kills them 91% and 9% water will do at least just as well it would seem.

**Doppelgaenger** · 06-09-2012, 01:42 PM

I have bought 99% isopropyl, the best source is usually farm or agricultural supply stores that cater to horses.

Something else I have used that is pretty good stuff is called StarSan, you can get it at any brewery supply store, it leaves no residue and has a 30 second contact time for killing all major pathogens.

**GDCarrington** · 06-09-2012, 03:17 PM

I can get 91% and 99% at Safeway or Tom Thumb stores. You might want to Google Safeway to see if they have a chain of stores (maybe under a different name since Safeway is the parent company as well) in your area.

**jkingrph** · 06-09-2012, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by sempra

If its not denatured, do you have to keep it under lock and key? I am assuming that not "denatured" means you can drink it????

Not denatured means you can drink it. Keeping under lock and key depends upon local rules, university, lab ect and tax status. If tax has been paid then legally it can handled the same as anything purchased at liquor store. Most often denaturing involves an ingredient that gives it a foul taste, and cannot be easily removed by common means, filtration or possibly re distillation.

Check with an independent pharmacy, if they do not have it they can order it. The most common isopropyl is 70%, after that I have handled far more 99% than anything else. When I was in the USAF we got 5 gal bottles of 99% isopropyl and diluted most of it for common medical purposes. Ethanol we got was 95% and again diluted for our compounding purposes. It came in 5 gal metal drums and had to be handled and accounted for the same as narcotics. If not used soon after opening, an very accurate volume record was hard to maintain because the volume would vary according to humidity.

**PhiGam** · 06-09-2012, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by TheSC

We bought a bottle of Everclear and did shots before... never again.

OP, I'm up in North AL and they have the 91% alcohol at Wal-Mart for about the same price as the 70%. I fail to understand how 70% alcohol is better at killing things than 91%. That high of a concentration I'm fairly sure it will kill almost anything. If 70% and 20% water kills them 91% and 9% water will do at least just as well it would seem.

It may seem, but it is not so. Isn't cognitive dissonance fun?

One of my best tools for making my students actually think in lab, rather than just trying to finish. It is great when you can take common misconceptions and use them to really force people to restructure their knowledge scaffold.

:)

**cb91710** · 06-09-2012, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by jkingrph

Not denatured means you can drink it. Keeping under lock and key depends upon local rules, university, lab ect and tax status. If tax has been paid then legally it can handled the same as anything purchased at liquor store. Most often denaturing involves an ingredient that gives it a foul taste, and cannot be easily removed by common means, filtration or possibly re distillation.

Check with an independent pharmacy, if they do not have it they can order it. The most common isopropyl is 70%, after that I have handled far more 99% than anything else. When I was in the USAF we got 5 gal bottles of 99% isopropyl and diluted most of it for common medical purposes. Ethanol we got was 95% and again diluted for our compounding purposes. It came in 5 gal metal drums and had to be handled and accounted for the same as narcotics. If not used soon after opening, an very accurate volume record was hard to maintain because the volume would vary according to humidity.

Read the above post from the Rev.

Not denatured does NOT mean that it is safe to drink.
Denatured does not mean that is has only been given a "foul taste".
The denaturing process introduces toxic compounds. Likewise, methanol is not "denatured" but is not drinkable.

As far as keeping under lock and key, in a commercial/educational setting, there are likely OSHA and other laws in place, but in the home, no such issues exist.