My Tabac went 'off'

**koso** · 06-02-2012, 09:51 AM

I had read about how Cella might 'go bad' or turn rancid over time. I used a full tub and never had a problem. But then, I went on a mission to use it up after learning it might turn, and only kept the tub 18 months or so. My Tabac had been around for maybe twice that long. It had sat in its Anchor Hocking bowl for several months when I decided to bust it out again.

The scent from the puck was fine. But the lather had a nasty funk. Meh, maybe I didn't rinse my brush well enough from the last shave and Tabac didn't care to mix with whatever traces were left in the brush. Next shave, Tabac up again. Ugh. Definitely something wrong here.

Into the trash the rest of the puck went. I'm not sure how that could have happened, the soap was stored under reasonable conditions in the bathroom. It was at the most four years old. I have some Fat that old that's fine and some Arko that doesn't stink any worse than the day I pressed it into a bowl.

Tabac can go rancid too. Or at least mine did. Anyone else experience this?

Replacement puck on the way, can't be without my Tabac, even if I hadn't used it in months. I will make a stronger commitment this time around.

**miatapaul** · 06-02-2012, 11:21 AM

Well it is based on tallow, so I imagine it could well go rancid. I am also concerned about moisture and mold. I normally just cap the soap after use (all in plastic containers) and have always been concerned that mildew might develop. Was it a rancid meat smell, or mildew/mold smell? I do have a puck of Williams that has some black spots on it, and I don't remember ever using it, and it is not a big loss, as it is about a buck. But to loose Tabac, that would be bad as it was a real splurge for me.

**smalltank** · 06-02-2012, 11:47 AM

Tallow=beef fat
Glycerine=chemical based

**koso** · 06-02-2012, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by miatapaul

Well it is based on tallow, so I imagine it could well go rancid. I am also concerned about moisture and mold. I normally just cap the soap after use (all in plastic containers) and have always been concerned that mildew might develop. Was it a rancid meat smell, or mildew/mold smell? I do have a puck of Williams that has some black spots on it, and I don't remember ever using it, and it is not a big loss, as it is about a buck. But to loose Tabac, that would be bad as it was a real splurge for me.

It was a rotten kind of smell. The puck was two thirds gone, so no heartache. I was just surprised as I hadn't heard of the T going bad before.

Replacement from StrawberryNet on the way

Probably a subject for a different thread, but I find I have to scrub so hard on Williams to get enough product up for a good lather, and given the smaller size of a Williams puck, it's not as much a value vs. premium stuff (Tabac, Wool Fat) as it might seem at first.

**Alejandro1969** · 06-02-2012, 11:54 AM

I'd love to buy the Cella 1kg but it will last for 4 years or so! Be a shame if it went off. I heard one guy stuck in in the ice box to store it!

**ggamyang** · 06-02-2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by smalltank

Glycerine=chemical based

incorrect... it's by-product when fat react with alkali and turns into soap (saponification). :)

**hometownhero** · 06-02-2012, 06:38 PM

Seems weird there are lots of people on the board here using williams form the 60's. I am using old spice from 40+ years ago with no problems.

**turtle** · 06-02-2012, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by hometownhero

Seems weird there are lots of people on the board here using williams form the 60's. I am using old spice from 40+ years ago with no problems.

Maybe it goes bad then after more time it mummifies and then it can last for thousands of years

**hometownhero** · 06-02-2012, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by turtle

Maybe it goes bad then after more time it mummifies and then it can last for thousands of years

Lol maybe

**Go West Young Man** · 06-02-2012, 09:35 PM

Pretty sure that soap doesn't go bad, maybe there was just some mold in the brush or on the surface of the puck?

**Foyle** · 06-02-2012, 09:41 PM

The scent of mine went bad too. Lathered up it suddenly smelled positively nasty.

**mretzloff** · 06-03-2012, 12:30 AM

Glycerin is a byproduct of soap making. You can also purchase vegetable-based glycerin in stores. Soap rarely goes bad, but can. A good soap usually superfats, meaning we add a little extra oil to the recipe. This ensures that all the lye is saponified and makes the soap more moisturizing.

**Kentos** · 06-03-2012, 12:45 AM

I had a sample of tabac that smelled funky as well. A smell that made me think "rotten".

**GreekGuy** · 06-03-2012, 12:56 AM

Without first hand examining it, my initial reaction is that its a brush issue.

If you didn't allow it to properly dry first before storing it, however, a closed, moist, dark container with soap makes a nice incubator for bacteria and fungi

**mblakele** · 06-03-2012, 11:27 AM

It could be a brush problem, but I think Matt is suggesting that the unsaponified oils in a superfatted soap can go rancid. A quick google search turns up a number of soapers making similar statements. One example:

http://www.lovinsoap.com/2010/07/sup...king-tutorial/

If you superfat with high percentages you are left with high amounts of unsaponified oils in your soap. While soap tends to have a pretty long shelf life, oils don’t and will go rancid. So a higher superfatted soap tends to go rancid quickly.

I would be surprised if Tabac has much superfat because I find it a little drying, but there could be batch variation or simple YMMV. Even with a small percentage of unsaponified fat, over time it could leach out or aggregate within the soap, becoming more vulnerable to rancidification. See http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...-TABAC-jar-WTF for some discussion of this idea.

Reading up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancidification I would not necessarily expect the result to smell like rancid butter, since that comes from butyric acid and Tabac should not have any of that. More likely any offensive odors would be from a mixture of oxidative and microbial rancidity. Microbes that want to grow in the superfat have to get into the soap in the first place, and have to tolerate a highly alkaline environment. Such a critter could come from the air, or the brush could be the vector.

I suppose this was one reason why shave sticks used to be advertised as more sanitary than pucks. With normal face-lather, the stick itself never touches the brush. You could still have cross-contamination from the brush to your skin and then back to the soap on the next shave, but that would be a little more difficult to achieve.