Kitchen knife hone questions - Llyn Melynllyn

[YetiDave]

I just bought a llyn melynllyn (that almost sounds evil, LLYN MELYNLLYN CTHULHU R'LYEH!) hone to test as a finisher after coti as it's estimated to be around the 12k mark. Now my question is - can I use it for kitchen knives and will it have affect the edge at all? I sharpen my knives on a cheap lump of carborundum that is probably around the 600-800 grit range on the finest side and finish the edge on a steel which does get it popping arm hairs. Is that kind of grit progression too great? 600 - 12k? Either way I'll certainly find a use for the hone, it'd just be nice if I could use it on knives as well

I know it's probably been discussed before but does anyone else have experience of the kind of shaving edge you get from these stones?

[ladykate]

That is a big jump - too big. Your kitchen knives might be stainless (all mine are) and I doubt the stone will work very well on them. Even if they were carbon steel, the jump from 600 to 12K is huge and not useful. 12K is a polisher - which isn't needed for most of our kitchen tools. Moreover, kitchen knives in our house are not meant to be razor sharp - not only would it be hard to maintain, it would be dangerous unless everyone was aware and there was strict discipline. Some of the Japanese sushi artists use knives of that keenness but most mortals need an edge that will cut but is durable but not deadly. A knife sharpened on a 325 stone will carve a roast like it was butter and stay that sharp for a few months.

I use the 'kitchen knife' edge as my basis for starting my hone progression. I put it on the blades with the DMT (325 or 600 grit). Indeed, that is pretty sharp and my son-in-law cut the crap out of himself one Thanksgiving because he wasn't expecting a sharp blade.

[YetiDave]

Yeah that's pretty much what I thought, I'm the only one using these knives (a couple of high carbon stainless Chinese cleavers) so an ultra sharp edge would only pose a threat to myself but I figured taking it straight to 12k after a crappy carborundum wouldn't do a great deal. I think I just gave myself an excuse to buy a 1k/6k? And I swore I wouldn't develop HAD...

[honed]

I regularly take my kitchen knives up to 0.1µ CBN
So no harm in that.
And edge holding is no biggie. A good quality knife will hold a razors edge for months with just daily stropping, just like a razor.
I usually use 0.1 or 0.75µ Ken Schwartz CBN on nanocloth or balsa on my knives & keep 'em going for a long time before ever taking them to the stones.

However, there is a couple of things here re: your questions

1) Most modern day kitchen day knives are made out of (inferior) stainless steels that are very soft (below 55 HRC)
That means they can not take an edge any higher then about 1K
Pretty much the only knives in production today that are worth spending time refining up to 12K is either made in Japan or by a skilled custom maker.

2) That is a biiiiig jump, what you might accomplish is to create a somewhat polished coarse edge that due to the polish from the natural will be a bit sharper & provide a smoother cut.
A ~5K stone in between would be ideal

3) Naturals work great on softer stainless steel & carbon steel & in some cases on low alloy stainless
On the more modern stainless with lots of alloys & high wear resistance, they barely scratch the steel.
All naturals works very well on the carbon steel usually used in Japanese knives, Hitachi white & blue steel though.

[YetiDave]

A bit of pr0n here, I was thinking of trying it on this knife



I'll shop around for something more around the 5k mark before trying the 12k!

[honed]

These Chinese blades often take a wicked edge, albeit they are on the softer side, so they do require more frequent touch-ups. But they can definitely take a 12K-ish edge.

A really good budget solution that still delivers awesome results for most knives is a King combo, either a 800/4000 or 1K/6K.
Would be ideal before your Lalalwlwlyywlwyan

And a King wont break the bank either

[Doc226]

A bit of pr0n here, I was thinking of trying it on this knife



I'll shop around for something more around the 5k mark before trying the 12k!

Very nice, where did you get it.

[honed]

I love that model of knife, halfway in between a typical Chinese cleaver & a Japanese gyuto.
Here's some more naked steel in the same model to drool over, one of the finest knives I have ever handled, a Maestro Wu, handforged from bomb shell steel







(Yes, and it shaved very well too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEg_mRKkcOc )

[YetiDave]

Very nice, where did you get it.

I actually took a bit of a gamble and ordered it through Amazon, but it came from teeblume.de

Very light and VERY sharp!

[Doc226]

I love that model of knife, halfway in between a typical Chinese cleaver & a Japanese gyuto.
Here's some more naked steel in the same model to drool over, one of the finest knives I have ever handled, a Maestro Wu, handforged from bomb shell steel







(Yes, and it shaved very well too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEg_mRKkcOc )

Like that one too, what are they called? Where can I get one?

[YetiDave]

I love that model of knife, halfway in between a typical Chinese cleaver & a Japanese gyuto.
Here's some more naked steel in the same model to drool over, one of the finest knives I have ever handled, a Maestro Wu, handforged from bomb shell steel







(Yes, and it shaved very well too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEg_mRKkcOc )

I've seen that video and I'd LOVE one of those blades! I'm not sure I could bring myself to shave my head with it though do you happen to know what the style of blade's actually called? I've not seen many others like it

[honed]

Like that one too, what are they called? Where can I get one?

jendeindustries.com sells them, this one was a special gift to a Swedish cooking show.
I'm not sure what the exact mdoel number is, but if you are interested just tell Tom that you want the same knife that Swedish Meal Time got

[YetiDave]

jendeindustries.com sells them, this one was a special gift to a Swedish cooking show.
I'm not sure what the exact mdoel number is, but if you are interested just tell Tom that you want the same knife that Swedish Meal Time got

As in Regular Ordinary Swedish Meal Time?

[honed]

I've seen that video and I'd LOVE one of those blades! I'm not sure I could bring myself to shave my head with it though do you happen to know what the style of blade's actually called? I've not seen many others like it

It's easier then you think

I have seen references to this particular model as both "Thai cleaver" & "Taiwanese Cleaver"
But just like the Chinese cleavers they are not what we westerners consider cleavers, i.e huge, thick blades for breaking down whole animals.
They have those type of models too of course, but these knives are more used like a regular chefs knife or a gyuto.
Used for most types of food preparations for veggies, fruit, boneless meat & what not.

[honed]

As in Regular Ordinary Swedish Meal Time?

Indeed! They haven't used it in a show yet though, they have been very quiet the last few months. Hopefully not because of chopping a limb off

[YetiDave]

Indeed! They haven't used it in a show yet though, they have been very quiet the last few months. Hopefully not because of chopping a limb off

Hah! No way, I love those guys, they must spend a pretty crazy amount on extra ingredients to throw around like that

As for the head shave, I've still not got it down with a regular straight, let alone an executioner's tool like that! How weighty is the bombshell? I've got a regular Chinese cleaver that's perfect for more heavy duty tasks (360g, fat blade) but I bought this one for more regular use as it's much lighter (180g) and thinner

[honed]

This praticular one was slightly thicker then an ordinary Chinese cleaver, but still thin enough to take a shaving edge with ease.
Weight, I'm not sure, but Tom could certainly answer that if you contact him