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Why did men stop shaving traditionally?
- Thread starter bennyblade28
- Start date
The marketing of the ease and convenience of the current crap that's pushed to new shavers as the "best" thing out there.
I do that every day.
Trolling anywhere is very bad form, and most B&B people are too polite to report anyone for it. I'm different.
I think I've heard that it had something to do with Gillettes Patents running out, and being Gillette they just completely canged the market with new products and patents to stay on top of the game.
Would you agree If I say that every DE brand on the marquet aren't fit for anybody ? Some folks out there swear by Astra while others can not stand anything less than a Feathers or an Iridium Super. Is this different with Gillette blades ? Are they universally compatible ?
This sounds like a very good reason for a company to innovate. I think the trac II and the astra were great shaving machines and they still are. Even one of those bic disposable things with a single blade is a decent shaver, and they are much easier to use and safer than a DE razor, you really have to try hard to hurt yourself with one of those.
People went to shaving with a safety razor because under battlefield conditions you didn't want guys getting startled and slicing their jugular when a mortar shell went off twenty feet away. You also couldn't shave in trenches in WWI and expect a straight razor not to rust, not to mention having time or conditions in which to hone and strop, so it made sense to make shaving safer and with an implement that would last just as long as a straight. Once every man on the front lines of WWI had a safety razor it was all over for the straight and it was the next golden standard for years to come.
We didn't end up with 5 bladed monsters for bend-me-over prices until schick and gillette got into their current pissing match over the number of blades, it wasn't until the companies realized that men would buy their overpriced crap no matter how much they charged for the refills that they started charging so much that the dollar shave club came about and men are slowly starting to go back to traditional shaving as the realize how they're being taken for a ride.
If only someone could come out with a razor that shaved as well as a DE but was as idiot proof and safe to use as a regular cart...
Great answers, Tom.
First, as some of you know I am one of the more experienced shavers (my wife says I can't use the word old) being 70 years old so I have first hand knowledge of why men did what they did.
I agree with Tom it is not a question of anyone being brainwashed. Rather, most men never learned the correct way to shave. Back when I started using a DE there was no B&B (or even the Internet!). You had to learn how to shave by trial and error or if someone taught you. The concepts of beard reduction, multiple passes, correct angle, proper prep, different qualities of soap and cream, different razor blades, etc. were unheard of. I remember my father constantly having nicks and cuts when he shaved. Hardly a day went by that he didn't have bits of toilet paper sticking to the cuts on his face. So, when Gillette came out with a simple system that took the skill set out of shaving he was a ready candidate as were many other men of that era.
I was one of the few men who returned to DE shaving after trying the multiple razor heads for the first time. I know at the time I found the Gillette system easier to use and got fewer nicks with it. However, I never got a close shave with that system. So I returned to my Gillette DE razors and began to use my FB and Slim most of the time. (My first razor was a TTO which, unfortunately, I no longer have.)
Back then I did a three or four pass shave - but not the way you do it now. Later I began to use a FB or Slim most of the time. As for razor blades: there was only one, Gillette Blue. Later I recall that Wilkinson came out with a SS razor blade that IMO performed a lot better than the Blues.
My first pass with the adjustable would be N to S with a setting of 5. I would then do a S to N pass at a setting of 5. Next I would do another N to S pass at a higher setting anywhere from 7 to 9. I would then use that same setting for a S to N pass. However, many friends and associates thought I was nuts to spend so much time shaving when you could get acceptable results from using a cart razor and do just one pass. We didn't call it a BBS shave back then - just a smooth shave - and that's what I wanted.
I also am more experienced. I started DE shaving in the mid 60's. I used a Gillette TTO with predominantly Gillette Blue and Super Blue blades. They I thought were crap. The stainless blades were better, but I still managed to cut myself a lot. I used whatever canned cream was available and cheap. I would do a one pass north to south shave with touch ups unless I was going on a date, then two passes. Like ackvil said, I remember my Father always having bits of TP stuck to his face from nicks and cuts in the morning. I usually did too. My Dad never used a brush and soap, but canned foam like me. I hated shaving with a DE and gladly went to an electric with occasional cart use from 1974 until 2011. My last DE was what we now call a slim, back then it was just an adjustable razor. The handiest feature I remember was that as the blade got duller, you started cranking it up from 5 to 9. I am sure I threw it in the garbage in 1974 when I got my Schick Flexmatic. I didn't quit it because of media marketing, brainwashing, or any of that crap, I quit it because I was sick of cutting myself and being late for work because I was dealing with said cuts. We didn't have cable, satellite, internet, etc. like today. We had 4 or 5 channels on TV, newspapers, radio, and magazines. As far as carts, My first one was a Sensor in the early '90s but I primarily would use disposables on the weekends to get the hairs the electric missed M-F. I was never after a BBS just a SAS. Hell, I only go for BBS a couple of times a week now. Now I enjoy shaving with a DE about as much as I hated it as a kid and young man. I use a variety of soaps, brushes, and razors like most on this forum. I still have a few electrics which I would use if I must, but I greatly prefer my DE's. I also bought some TRAC II carts and holders for the first time this year for airline travel. They are like the electric to me, they work fine when I need them, but I prefer my DE's now.
When I was 16 y/o (1975) my Dad gave me a Gillette Flair-Tip & canned Foam, told me to be careful and sent me on my way, He was using a Slim Adjustable and also had Injectors. My Paternal Grandfather told me to ditch the can and gave me my first Brush & a puck of Tabac.
The Blades back then were really sharp, but I don't think they were as smooth as current production blades and liked to "Bite", especially on the points of the jaw, below the earlobe. In retrospect the nicks & cuts could have been from poor, O.K. BAD Technique, like too much pressure & poor blade angle. I'd remember getting frustrated when I first started because the blade didn't remove all the stubble with one pass, 16y/o thought process... More Pressure. Through years of stubbornness and Trial & Error, I improved my Techniques, receiving better, more enjoyable shaves.
Without taking the time to figure out how to improve our shaves, a necessary evil, many were glad when the mindless shaves of carts, disposables & ready made lather became abundant and happily jumped ship. So, I guess many of my and previous Generations remember the difficulties of DE Shaving and the lack of any Support Group like B&B didn't cure our ills. Just my thoughts on why so many of the more Mature Gentlemen are hesitant to return to Traditional shaving.
The Blades back then were really sharp, but I don't think they were as smooth as current production blades and liked to "Bite", especially on the points of the jaw, below the earlobe. In retrospect the nicks & cuts could have been from poor, O.K. BAD Technique, like too much pressure & poor blade angle. I'd remember getting frustrated when I first started because the blade didn't remove all the stubble with one pass, 16y/o thought process... More Pressure. Through years of stubbornness and Trial & Error, I improved my Techniques, receiving better, more enjoyable shaves.
Without taking the time to figure out how to improve our shaves, a necessary evil, many were glad when the mindless shaves of carts, disposables & ready made lather became abundant and happily jumped ship. So, I guess many of my and previous Generations remember the difficulties of DE Shaving and the lack of any Support Group like B&B didn't cure our ills. Just my thoughts on why so many of the more Mature Gentlemen are hesitant to return to Traditional shaving.
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It's hard, I think, for younger folks to realize how much modernization was "in" during the early 1970's. It was almost a sin to be considered "old fashioned". The first moon landing was only three years in the past when the Trac II came out, and products weren't being sold as healthy, socially aware or eco-friendly. They were being sold as modern and convenient.
The 110 instamatic camera was all the rage. TV Guide quit denoting color programs and starting denoting monochrome shows. HBO started up. PONG hit the markets. Digital watches and hand held calculators showed up.
I'm sure electric razors were gaining market share. Gillette would have been suicidal to do anything but innovate, and I believe the thought they really were offering a better product with the TracII. In many ways, I think they were.
Just has Hamburger Helper (introduced in 1971) still sells, even when cheaper, tastier, healthier alternatives abound, so it is with cartridge shaving. I just got a Gillette ProGlide for free at Costco, and you know, with good prep, it's an almost idiot proof ticket to a decent shave.
Just as I won't drop my home cooked meals for the talking glove on the box, I'll not give up the satisfying, enjoyable, superior shaves I can craft with my own skill for the convenience of a McCartridge shave....but that's a choice that most consumers will not make.
You can't judge the shavers or 1972 properly from the distance of 2012, unless you first understand the world they knew. It was a different time, and any questions about the wisdom of moving to cartridges would probably be met with about the same lack of understanding that you would have gotten if you suggested that ashtrays indoors at work were probably a bad idea.
The 110 instamatic camera was all the rage. TV Guide quit denoting color programs and starting denoting monochrome shows. HBO started up. PONG hit the markets. Digital watches and hand held calculators showed up.
I'm sure electric razors were gaining market share. Gillette would have been suicidal to do anything but innovate, and I believe the thought they really were offering a better product with the TracII. In many ways, I think they were.
Just has Hamburger Helper (introduced in 1971) still sells, even when cheaper, tastier, healthier alternatives abound, so it is with cartridge shaving. I just got a Gillette ProGlide for free at Costco, and you know, with good prep, it's an almost idiot proof ticket to a decent shave.
Just as I won't drop my home cooked meals for the talking glove on the box, I'll not give up the satisfying, enjoyable, superior shaves I can craft with my own skill for the convenience of a McCartridge shave....but that's a choice that most consumers will not make.
You can't judge the shavers or 1972 properly from the distance of 2012, unless you first understand the world they knew. It was a different time, and any questions about the wisdom of moving to cartridges would probably be met with about the same lack of understanding that you would have gotten if you suggested that ashtrays indoors at work were probably a bad idea.
Well said!
I would say good marketing and the need for man to keep up with the latest trends.
my old man wet shaved all his life. but as we never talked about shaving, I don't know why he did not change with the latest shaving trends.
At a guess he was happy with the shaves so why change.
my old man wet shaved all his life. but as we never talked about shaving, I don't know why he did not change with the latest shaving trends.
At a guess he was happy with the shaves so why change.
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in my short time DE shaving(3 months),Ive gotten so use to the De that I can shave with it the same time,if not faster than when I was using a cartridge with very minimal cuts,nicks,and irritation.Rinsing the gunk off a DE razor is much faster and easier than removing whiskers from in between 5 blades.Once you get the hang of handling the DE razor with a good blade and good cushion,you can shave fairly fast with it with almost no blood loss.
The definition of, "rude", per Webster, envelopes both vulgar and unlearned. I was neither.
For an hypothesis to be considered true, it must be 1) repeatable, and 2) generalizable.
For the record, I use straights, DE and SEs fairly interchangeably, with an edge in proficiency to the SE class.
Now, to my original point- while individuals may have made perfectly reasonable choices, regarding the costs/benefits in choosing the "next generation" of shave technology, undeniably, it was at the cost of teaching the following generation the full spectrum of options available, hence, socially, a large block of knowledge is lost, across the larger social spectrum.
This has resulted in the rather cult-like atmosphere around straights and honing.I enjoy them, but sheesh!
How many men are able to form and harden iron? Make planks from raw lumber (aka, trees)? This may seem "extreme", but fundamentally, the loss of this once common knowledge from the common currency makes our society much more fragile, and no, the "man of today" is not what he would have been 150 years ago.
Eric Erickson noted that extended childhood was the mark of civilization, but that it left men with life-long developmental scars. The loss of this particular father-to-son transition of information is symptomatic of a much greater loss- surrendering heritage to social whim.
I'll grant your point that today's generation has lost some of the skills of previous generations, but the world changes and the skillset needed to survive changes. Kids today are fluent in skills that their grandparents wouldn't even understand the concept behind.
+1. fully agree. the power of marketing and the need to be associated with a specific brand. Throw in the power of the 'Lad's' magzaines such as GQ, Mens' health, Esquire and numerous other glossy periodicals and celebrity sportsmen endorsments and you hav a gullable 18-25 year olds easily swayed.
I blame it on the Internet!
As a kid I always remembered seeing my dad shave with a DE, but just recently I was very surprised to hear that he's been using cartridges for over 10 years. I asked why and he said "they stopped making razor blades". Obviously it's not true, but as a senior without the internet, it's practically impossible to find blades in a regular store. And the ironic part is he's almost within walking distance of The Italian Barber store - who only sells online.
As a kid I always remembered seeing my dad shave with a DE, but just recently I was very surprised to hear that he's been using cartridges for over 10 years. I asked why and he said "they stopped making razor blades". Obviously it's not true, but as a senior without the internet, it's practically impossible to find blades in a regular store. And the ironic part is he's almost within walking distance of The Italian Barber store - who only sells online.
Great answers, Tom.
First, as some of you know I am one of the more experienced shavers (my wife says I can't use the word old) being 70 years old so I have first hand knowledge of why men did what they did.
I agree with Tom it is not a question of anyone being brainwashed. Rather, most men never learned the correct way to shave. Back when I started using a DE there was no B&B (or even the Internet!
I was one of the few men who returned to DE shaving after trying the multiple razor heads for the first time. I know at the time I found the Gillette system easier to use and got fewer nicks with it. However, I never got a close shave with that system. So I returned to my Gillette DE razors and began to use my FB and Slim most of the time. (My first razor was a TTO which, unfortunately, I no longer have.)
Back then I did a three or four pass shave - but not the way you do it now. Later I began to use a FB or Slim most of the time. As for razor blades: there was only one, Gillette Blue. Later I recall that Wilkinson came out with a SS razor blade that IMO performed a lot better than the Blues.
My first pass with the adjustable would be N to S with a setting of 5. I would then do a S to N pass at a setting of 5. Next I would do another N to S pass at a higher setting anywhere from 7 to 9. I would then use that same setting for a S to N pass. However, many friends and associates thought I was nuts to spend so much time shaving when you could get acceptable results from using a cart razor and do just one pass. We didn't call it a BBS shave back then - just a smooth shave - and that's what I wanted.
I love the historical perspective some of you guys have offered. I'm fascinated about what guys were thinking and doing back then. To all of you who have been doing the brush and soap thing all this time: You are awesome
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