I bet your 1 pass is closer than my 9 pass.

[jesseix]

70 minutes shaving sounds like a long time; are you maybe going over each area on your skin multiple times before you re-lather? I'm still honing my wet shaving routine and one thing I found myself doing was since I was concentrating on doing shorter strokes, I would end up going over parts of my skin a couple times without even realizing it. It helped me a lot to just focus on truly just going over each area once, and them warm rinse and re-lather and do another pass until I'm satisfied.

[Guido]

I'm sure I did that. I'll pay more attention next time but I'm thinking if I can get to the root of the problem then I wouldn't have to make so many passes. It's tempting to do "just one more pass" without lather, but for the problem areas I had the razor in one hand and the brush in the other and was alternating until I achieved BAS (barely acceptable shave).

[mistervee123]

Your troubles may be related to the grain of your beard. Take a look at this link to an INTERACTIVE FACE MAP. Using the face map, it's a LOT easier and less frustrating to get anything from a SAS to DFS to BBS. BTW, I'm a 2-pass + touch up shaver now since using the map and understanding the grain of my beard.

[swamps]

I'd just like to ask do you have the razor assembled the right way i know it sounds a daft thing to ask but you'd be surprised the amount of times that somebody's had issues in the past and its been down to having the base plate the wrong way as i read in your 1st post you have a merkur hd 3 piece...

[Slash McCoy]

So have you tried a different razor yet? Are you stretching the skin to be shaven, to help pop the whiskers out and make them stand up? You should be able to get a more or less acceptable shave with only one pass. A pretty darn decent shave with two more or less WTG passes. That should be your goal, BTW. BBS should not be an immediate objective anyhow.

One thing I can suggest at this point is take a break from punishing your face and go back to your electric for 5 or 6 days. You have earned a shave vacation.

You should be getting a better shave than that just by accident. I can't imagine how you can get a decent first shave and then everything just go to crap. Your Merkur is not an easy razor to damage or misalign, but I would nevertheless try a different razor. A Tech is a nice cheap option. Even a new Lord should work, for not much more $. A Slim set on "2" would be excellent.

Time to reveal the secret weapon. Get one of those cheesy hot lather machines. Yes, they use canned goo. But don't shut me out just yet. Lather normally with your regular soap. Apply the hot lather right over it. Let it stand a couple of minutes. Wipe it off and apply more. It works really good under a steaming hot towel. Your face still has a film of regular shaving soap on it, and the hot goo serves only as a sort of electric blanket over it. The heat, the moisture, and the slightly alkali shave soap over 10 minutes or so will soften any beard, especially one still wet from a hot shower. Another thing... get out of the habit of drying your face after you shower. As soon as your face dries, the keratin scales that make up the outer layer of the hair shaft start to harden back up, and resume their function of armoring the hair. Go straight from shower to shave prep. In fact, consider your shower to be the first step of your prep.

[Slash McCoy]

I'd just like to ask do you have the razor assembled the right way i know it sounds a daft thing to ask but you'd be surprised the amount of times that somebody's had issues in the past and its been down to having the base plate the wrong way as i read in your 1st post you have a merkur hd 3 piece...

+1

Post a pic of your razor with the cap off and the base on the handle, then with the blade and cap added. The HD shavers here will spot it if that is the problem.

[johne123]

To find how much water to add, you don't really know until you add too much. I think the wiki has a thread that shows pictures of too little, just right, and too much water. I followed that advice and made a test batch in a bowl, slowly adding water. The maximum really looked shiny and felt slick to my finger tips. As I added more the bubbles got bigger and the soap started collapsing and couldn't hold it's shape or stay on the side of the bowl. I face lathered for the first time today and still checked the slickness with my fingers just to make sure. I'm still very much a beginner. Good luck.

[Guido]

Here's what I mapped out (ignore the fingers). Also, my beard right now is so uneven it's difficult to map, so I wouldn't be surprised if it changes a bit after a some growth.

I didn't try any other razor. My only one is a 2 piece Merkur HD34C. I verified the blade protrudes evenly on both sides, and is parallel to the comb, but I can't do what's shown in this photo (taken by doesnotcompute). The blade protrudes more than shown so I can't have all 3 surfaces (head/blade/bar) touching the surface at the same time (tested on a mirror). I'll try to take a photo. But since it's consistent on both sides, I don't think it's a razor's fault. I've always wanted a DE89L :)



Here is my theory:
My first shave was so successful because the electric razor left my stubble "soft", so it was easy to slice. After that shave my stubble got progressively more stiff. Unlike with the electric, my 2 year old now winces when she kisses me. She said my face feels like pine cones! LOL
I think whatever pre-shave I'm doing is not softening my stubble enough. Last night I shaved before showering, after thoroughly splashing my face with hot water, then holding a hot towel to it (3 times, a minute each), then letting lather sit for about 3-4 minutes. I used P.160 soap. I forgot to try holding the towel over the lather... next time.

One day I'll leave the lather on my face for a solid 7-8 minutes to see if it makes a difference.
Should I practice with a cartridge for a bit so blade angle is more forgiving, and then I can focus on technique and making lather?

[Slash McCoy]

One day I'll leave the lather on my face for a solid 7-8 minutes to see if it makes a difference.
Should I practice with a cartridge for a bit so blade angle is more forgiving, and then I can focus on technique and making lather?

Worth a try. Go with a single blade cart or disposable. The Bic single blade is good and really cheap... about $.25 ea in a bag of 10. The Sensitive one is good, too and shaves very mild but the regular is probably better for you. If the disposable works for you, then I suggest picking up a $5 tech and trying that. You need to eliminate your Merkur from the list of possible culprits, and you are running out of culprits.

Merkur, j'accuse!

[Scottyb06]

1. Try using pre-shave oil instead of Proraso pre-post shave lotion. I get far better results with oils! 2. Cover your face with a hot towel in-between each pass for 30 seconds. 3. Use a Feather blade that's new or close to new. Feathers are sharp as hell - if you blade is new(er) and not working properly, that's not where your problem lies. 4. For the lower part of your neck, try a j-hook (downard). For the upper part of your neck/jawline, try an upward j-hook. For the bottom part of your chin, try blade buffing. I do this each and every day and it's the only way I can get BBS on these areas with no irritation whatsoever. When you do this, use NO PRESSURE - think of your self cutting the hairs vs. shaving your skin (if that makes sense). Mantic has videos on this process called 'advanced techniques' or something like that. In your post you said you are pressing down with poor results. This tells me either your blade is dull or you didn't prepare properly. 5. When finished, use a good balm to help heal your skin. I usually put on another coat after about five minutes.

If it helps at all, I use a Merkur Futur with the setting all way down (below "1", actually), Feather blades (I get two four pass shaves from each), and most often use Taylor of Old Bond Street pre-shave oil, Taylor shaving cream (Jermyn Street or Sandalwood), and a mid-level badger hair brush. Also shave after showering. At times I will use Proraso pre-post, Proraso shave soap, and a Shark blade. For me, Sharks are ok but simply aren't sharp enough for a BBS shave.

[eizan70]

4. For the lower part of your neck, try a j-hook (downard). For the upper part of your neck/jawline, try an upward j-hook. For the bottom part of your chin, try blade buffing. I do this each and every day and it's the only way I can get BBS on these areas with no irritation whatsoever. When you do this, use NO PRESSURE - think of your self cutting the hairs vs. shaving your skin (if that makes sense). Mantic has videos on this process called 'advanced techniques' or something like that. In your post you said you are pressing down with poor results. This tells me either your blade is dull or you didn't prepare properly. 5. When finished, use a good balm to help heal your skin. I usually put on another coat after about five minutes.

I don't know about this. We have frequent reference to "Bloody Mess" as is, with basic techniques. I think these may need to wait until he is actually comfortable with a basic shave.

[kingfisher]

I don't know about this. We have frequent reference to "Bloody Mess" as is, with basic techniques. I think these may need to wait until he is actually comfortable with a basic shave.

+1. This guy isn't anywhere near ready to try J-hooking or anything else. He hasn't yet accomplished a reasonable one-pass beard reduction. That should be goal number one.

[Scottyb06]

I'll be honest - I have no idea where the difficulty lies in j-hooking. As long as you don't use pressure I honestly don't see how it's any more difficult that ATG. Not trying to put the guy into a bad spot here but I think if he's properly lubed and using a good blade and cream it may very well solve his problem :)

[Threeme2189]

I'm starting to think the razor is defective or not properly assembled.
I would suggest getting a tried and true gillette TTO razor, if its adjustable put it on a mild setting.
Let your face rest for a few days and use your electric or a cart razor as suggested.
Your lather should hold soft peaks (they should be a bit rounded at the tips) and be shiny. too dry and the peaks are stiff and pointy, too wet and it just becomes a watery mess.

Prep your face with lukewarm water, maybe you are using too hot water that is making your skin sensitive?
Let the lather sit for a minute or two and if it dries out whip it around with your (slightly wet) brush before the 1st pass.
Go wtg, and before you rinse the razor see if there is stubble in the lather you shaved off.

Good luck!

[Bobtrumpet]

Lathering is difficult - I watched many videos and read a lot of tips, but it's not easy when I have no frame of reference. I've never seen lather up close besides my own. Mine "looks" just like the videos, but I'm sure up close it's different. And it feels exactly as expected; like slick wet soap. But is it slick and wet enough? No clue, the videos don't help there.

A way to check for good lather:

Rub some of the lather between your thumb and forefinger.

Is is slick? Your thumb and forefinger should slide back and forth easily with little if any resistance. There should be no drag due to skin on skin contact.

When you pull your thumb and forefinger apart, does the lather give just a little resistance? You should not be able to pull them apart quickly, but you should not fell as if they are glued together.

You can always try to add more product (!) and add more water. I particulary like the idea of "practice lathers." That helped me a lot when I was starting out.

[eizan70]

You can always try to add more product (!) and add more water. I particulary like the idea of "practice lathers." That helped me a lot when I was starting out.

+1. This can be very helpful. Make a dry to excessively wet lather so you can see and feel the difference. It really is difficult to get an accurate depiction of lather in a photo.

[Guido]

I was afraid of this. I used my electric to give my face a break, and had an amazing shave. Maybe my best electric shave ever. Not as close as a blade on my cheeks, but at least it was an even cut with zero irritation. And it took me 10 minutes.
My goal is to get this exact shave, with a DE.
In the meantime I'll keep practicing making lather.

[RobAtSGH]

I was afraid of this. I used my electric to give my face a break, and had an amazing shave. Maybe my best electric shave ever. Not as close as a blade on my cheeks, but at least it was an even cut with zero irritation. And it took me 10 minutes.
My goal is to get this exact shave, with a DE.
In the meantime I'll keep practicing making lather.

Did you ever double-check the assembly of your Merkur? The way the 3-piece razors come shipped in the box is *not* how they're supposed to be assembled for use. Can you post a picture of how your razor's head is currently assembled?

[lt114]

The culprit sounds like a combination of dry lather and a steep blade angle.
Practice making lather until you can consistently make lather that is wet enough to allow the blade to glide smoothly through your beard. There is nothing wrong with your soap; Proraso is great for beginners. Also, work on proper blade angle as others have already suggested.

It will all come with time. Wet shaving is about acquiring and refining an array of skills (making lather, proper pre-shave prep, proper blade angle, light pressure, etc.). None of us learned how to do these things overnight. I've been wet shaving going on 2 years now, and I'm constantly learning and refining technique.

Good luck and enjoy your shaves!

[Guido]

Another update (no need to reply, just that I don't like letting threads die without following up).

So after my very bloody shave with my HD (it's a 2 piece), I used my electric and had a really good shave. And today I used a cheap 2-blade disposable and had another really good shave - similar to my first DE shave after using an electric for years. I didn't even get a tiny sting when using my alum bar. I did 2 WTG and 1 XTG and another XTG at the trouble spots. It actually felt really good. The was tugging, but only tiny tugs and the hairs would give way. With my DE it would tug tug tug without letting go. One thing I noticed I was doing wrong was overlapping the strokes, by as much as 50%. What should take 3 strokes I was taking 5 or 6. I focused on not overlapping. And I practiced my lathering the last few days which I'm sure helped. Plus mapping my face. Actually - almost all the tips you guys mentioned!

I have 10 disposables, so I'll use them for 10 shaves. Hopefully by then I'll have my new EJ DE89 and will give DE another shot. I'm finally starting to feel good again about wet shaving. Stay tuned... :)