Which blue?

[Mr5x5]

If you could only have one blue which would it be, Liberty's Elysium or BSB? I would be using UT my clear Ahab demonstrator. Waterproof is important but bulletproof isn't vital. Mostly for letter exchange and journaling.

[oc_in_fw]

I love BSB, but know it is loud. The LE intrigues me, though, due to it being bulletproof. LE looks pretty vivid, too, plus it is bulletproof.

[Dave258]

I don't think they look that different. I think in his video Brian Goulet said that BSB has more purpleish notes than Liberty's Elysium. Then there is all the stuff that has been debated about BSB...
I am going to pick up a bottle of Liberty's Elysium when they get it back in stock.

[gks]

I have not seen BSB aside from online, however, I just got Liberty's Elysium. Love it. It's my new goto blue.

[Doc4]

I've not seen L-E in person, but have BSB and Noodler's "Blue" (which is not too far from L-E, it seems.) If I could pick between BSB and a waterproof Blue, I'd take Blue in a heartbeat.

[oc_in_fw]

I've not seen L-E in person, but have BSB and Noodler's "Blue" (which is not too far from L-E, it seems.) If I could pick between BSB and a waterproof Blue, I'd take Blue in a heartbeat.

So, you say buy both

[Doc4]

So, you say buy both

... and eight others, so I get the 10% discount from the Goulets.

[oc_in_fw]

... and eight others, so I get the 10% discount from the Goulets.

That kind of math only works when my wife goes shopping.

[Jimmy James]

If waterproof is important, BSB would seem a better option. As you'll be seeing, the scenario where some rain gets on your envelope and messes up the writing favors BSB. LE is a wonderful ink with some nice properties I'm about to document here, but it's not an ink I'd suggest for mailing.

If I had to pick one blue from what I've seen so far as an overall blue with water resistance, I'd suggest looking for Henry Hudson Blue, an exclusive from Fountain Pen Hospital. It's a much darker blue, though.

[Mr5x5]

If waterproof is important, BSB would seem a better option. As you'll be seeing, the scenario where some rain gets on your envelope and messes up the writing favors BSB. LE is a wonderful ink with some nice properties I'm about to document here, but it's not an ink I'd suggest for mailing.

If I had to pick one blue from what I've seen so far as an overall blue with water resistance, I'd suggest looking for Henry Hudson Blue, an exclusive from Fountain Pen Hospital. It's a much darker blue, though.

. I thought that LE was supposed to be waterproof as well?

[the_edski]

I would call BSB its own color ( and it pretty much is!)...so I could have that AND a favorite blue!

[Jimmy James]

. I thought that LE was supposed to be waterproof as well?

It's partly waterproof, but it partly isn't.

It seems as somebody else pointed out, the term Bulletproof has possibly been redefined by Nathan Tardif along the way. Until the Warden series of inks (Bad Green Gator, Bad Belted Kingfish, etc), it seems semi-bulletproof meant something would survive and bulletproof meant nothing would leave the page. Under that terminology, this ink is semi-bulletproof.

Under the post-Warden definitions, an ink seems to be billed "bulletproof" by Nathan if it is fraud resistant in any manner. Leaving behind a permanent pastel blue image would be both durable and fraud-detecting and thus perhaps in his new terminology "bulletproof". LE was definitely billed by Brian Goulet as bulletproof in his intro video, and he certainly seemed to think that meant that the ink that was coming off the page was "excess ink" (which you will see sometimes with Noodler's Black). I really don't think it is based on my testing. I think Nathan told the Goulets this was a bulletproof ink because it is fraud evident.

[RHVette]

It's partly waterproof, but it partly isn't.

It seems as somebody else pointed out, the term Bulletproof has possibly been redefined by Nathan Tardif along the way. Until the Warden series of inks (Bad Green Gator, Bad Belted Kingfish, etc), it seems semi-bulletproof meant something would survive and bulletproof meant nothing would leave the page. Under that terminology, this ink is semi-bulletproof.

Under the post-Warden definitions, an ink seems to be billed "bulletproof" by Nathan if it is fraud resistant in any manner. Leaving behind a permanent pastel blue image would be both durable and fraud-detecting and thus perhaps in his new terminology "bulletproof". LE was definitely billed by Brian Goulet as bulletproof in his intro video, and he certainly seemed to think that meant that the ink that was coming off the page was "excess ink" (which you will see sometimes with Noodler's Black). I really don't think it is based on my testing. I think Nathan told the Goulets this was a bulletproof ink because it is fraud evident.

That would make sense to me because I recall seeing a Noodler's ink or two labeled "eternal" and that meant that NOTHING would leave once set (like the old bulletproof designation apparently.) Unfortunately, I've been unable to track down the mystery ink since, which is a shame because I really want some of it now.

[Jimmy James]

A lot of inks carry the eternal label. FPH Henry Hudson Blue is one of them if memory serves. It hasn't ever been clear what eternal means except that it may imply some sun resistant properties. I think #41 Brown may also carry that designation as well as the UK and Russian series inks.

[Doc4]

T... I recall seeing a Noodler's ink or two labeled "eternal" and that meant that NOTHING would leave once set (like the old bulletproof designation apparently.) Unfortunately, I've been unable to track down the mystery ink since, which is a shame because I really want some of it now.

The Goulet page lets you search the inks by property, so here are the ones described as Eternal. I see a lot there that will lose at least some of their colour if washed in water. L-E is there, for example.

Turning to the Goulet "Fountain of Knowledge" we find these definitions ...

Bulletproof - A Noodler's term used to describe ink that is particularly fraud resistant and can withstand water, UV rays, bleach, oven cleaners, etc.

Eternal - A term coined by Noodler's Ink to describe the properties of a fountain pen ink that is resistant to UV exposure and fading over a long period of time.

Some Noodler's inks are classified as both bulletproof and eternal. L-E is one of those, for example.


I prefer to think in terms of three categories:

Waterproof and water-resistant: WP means that none of the ink will ever wash off. WR means that some will wash off but some will remain ... it'll look messy but always still be legible.

Fraud-proof and fraud-indicative: I guess a bit more tomayto-tomahto, but ... FP would mean that the fraud chemicals would just "bounce off" and you wouldn't even be able to tell that an attempt had been made, and FI would mean that the ink would remain and still be legible, but somehow changed so as to indicate the fraud attempt. For me, the most important factor is that fraud cannot succeed and the original ink is legible unless the paper itself is destroyed.

Last forever UV resistant: I guess "forever" may be a stretch, but ... if the Magna Carta is still legible after 800 years, I'd like a modern ink that can do the same. When you get your university diploma and the dean has signed it, you want to be able to hang it on your office wall for 40 years and the signature not fade ... and then give it to your grandson who has followed in the same profession and he can hang it in his office for 40 years and still it hasn't faded ... and then ...



It's easy for us to test the "waterproof" bit. Harder to test the fraud bit ... sure, we can buy some bleach and oven cleaner or whatever, but most of us don't know all the "tricks of the trade", and some of that stuff is a lot harder and more expensive than just walking over to the kitchen sink and turning on the tap. It's easy for us to test the UV longevity (sunlight's free and abundant) ... but it takes forever.

[Isaac]

I have both inks...

I have to say that I would pick the L.E. only because it is bulletproof. I love Baystate Blue, but there have been many batch variations. The bottle I have is an electric blue that has no hints of purple. I have seen other bottles that do have a shade of purple to it. the new L.E. Is a gorgeous blue and I would, and did, buy it in a heartbeat.

[LouieGrandie]

Waterman's Florida Blue is one of the most respected Blues out there.

[dspeers58]

Visconti Blue is lovely, but expensive. The Pilot/Namiki blues do well with respect to water resistance. (Including the Iroshizuku inks)

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