Pipe: Bulldog or Rhodesian?

[Hirsute]

I've always been a half-bend w/ a huge bowl kind of guy, but I'm thinking about something a little smaller and jauntier for walks with the dog. I like to clench, so that's a consideration. I'm thinking a Peterson in either a bulldog (a 150) or rhodesian (80s). I love the look of the bulldog but wonder if it will be comfortable to clench, which is why I'm thinking a rhodesian might be better (although I like the look less). Can anyone who's smoked either (or both!) share their thoughts? Oh, and for finish I'm thinking something a little more subdued--either Fermoy or Donegal (rusticated). Thanks for your help.

[Commander Quan]

If you like the 999 just get it. Any difference between the two will be purely aesthetics, I've got two 999s and they'll clench just fine.

Edit I didn't see that you were looking at the 150 and not the 999 shape. I agree that something with a curve will hang a little better for longer time periods.

[Miles]

If it helps any, here's a pic of a fermoy rhodesian. In my very limited experience I have found the rhodesian to clench quite nicely and to be very comfortable and easy to smoke. One caveat: Try to find one that is drilled properly with the air passage set at the bottom of the bowl.

[SweetOne69]

I've always been a half-bend w/ a huge bowl kind of guy, but I'm thinking about something a little smaller and jauntier for walks with the dog. I like to clench, so that's a consideration. I'm thinking a Peterson in either a bulldog (a 150) or rhodesian (80s). I love the look of the bulldog but wonder if it will be comfortable to clench, which is why I'm thinking a rhodesian might be better (although I like the look less). Can anyone who's smoked either (or both!) share their thoughts? Oh, and for finish I'm thinking something a little more subdued--either Fermoy or Donegal (rusticated). Thanks for your help.

Both the 150 and the 80s are considered Bulldogs (1 bent and 1 straight), the Rhodesian is model 999.

[SweetOne69]

I have the 2012 St. Patrick's Day Rhodesian and while it is a good pipe, I agree with Miles. Try to view them in person to find one with a properly drilled draft hole.

The draft hole on mine is not centered in the shaft and is up off the bottom of the bowl about 1/4". If it would've been drilled in the center of the shaft instead of the top it would've been perfect. As a result it is impossible to run a pipe cleaner through without removing the stem.

[Hirsute]

Both the 150 and the 80s are considered Bulldogs (1 bent and 1 straight), the Rhodesian is model 999.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. Cheers.

[SweetOne69]

Thanks for clarifying that for me. Cheers.

I should clarify further.

There are multiple ways manufactures differentiate between a Bulldog and a Rhodesian.

Some go by the ratio of the bowl height to the bowl diameter. If the height is greater than the diameter it is a Bulldog, otherwise it is a Rhodesian.

Some go by the shaft. If its round it is a Rhodesian, if it is diamond shaped it is a Bulldog (This how Peterson differentiates the two).

For some if it is a straight shaft it is a Bulldog, if it is bent it is a Rhodesian.

[Commander Quan]

Here is a good article Greg Pease wrote about his thoughts on the topic. http://www.glpease.com/Pipes/Shapes/Bulldogs.php

[bnalley]

I should clarify further.

There are multiple ways manufactures differentiate between a Bulldog and a Rhodesian.

Some go by the ratio of the bowl height to the bowl diameter. If the height is greater than the diameter it is a Bulldog, otherwise it is a Rhodesian.

Some go by the shaft. If its round it is a Rhodesian, if it is diamond shaped it is a Bulldog (This how Peterson differentiates the two).

For some if it is a straight shaft it is a Bulldog, if it is bent it is a Rhodesian.

Yes, the only difference in the Petersons are the shafts, purely cosmetic. i like the Rusticated Donegals with their sterling bands also, I Have one in a Zulu shape.
I have a Peterson Kildare in the Bulldog shape, and I love it dearly. I do not have a Rhodesian though and want that 2012 St. Paddy's BADLY. maybe for my birthday

[Hirsute]

Thanks for all the great tips gents. I'll head to my local shop and see what they have.

Can anyone point me to link on how to check alignment of draft holes? Just eyeballing to make sure it's on center and comes in at the bottom of the bowl, and then confirm I can pass a pipe cleaner?

[bnalley]

If you are going For a Peterson or other higher end brand, it shouldn't be a problemb. Some shapes/ bores require that the stem be removed for cleaning. I always remove my stems for cleaning no matter if a cleaner can be passed through or not. Just give it sufficient time to cool before removing the stem.

[Commander Quan]

Actually Peterson has some of the worst drilling issues out of any of the premium pipe makers. I've ranted about this before, but it's because most of their shapes are designed to be able to drill for a 9mm filter, the tenon and mortise are both much larger than a standard pipes, and for some reason the guy that drills the draft holes can't get his drill to find the center of the mortise. I'm not sure if everyone at the factory takes a 6 Guinness lunch or what, but their QA is atrocious compared to other other pipes in the same price range.

If you can pass a pipe cleaner down through the stem and into the bowl with minimal effort, the and the draft hold is drilled through the sidewall at the deepest part of the pipe you'll be in good shape.

[bnalley]

Actually Peterson has some of the worst drilling issues out of any of the premium pipe makers. I've ranted about this before, but it's because most of their shapes are designed to be able to drill for a 9mm filter, the tenon and mortise are both much larger than a standard pipes, and for some reason the guy that drills the draft holes can't get his drill to find the center of the mortise. I'm not sure if everyone at the factory takes a 6 Guinness lunch or what, but their QA is atrocious compared to other other pipes in the same price range.

If you can pass a pipe cleaner down through the stem and into the bowl with minimal effort, the and the draft hold is drilled through the sidewall at the deepest part of the pipe you'll be in good shape.

I guess I haven't had that problemb with any of my 10 Peterson pipes. However, I will say that 6 of them are beautiful examples of Pre-Republic heirlooms passed down by my Grandfather (which would make them at least 70 years old give or take, and still in exellent shape due to proper care and maintenance). Maybe I've been lucky with the other 4 not to have encountered these quality control issues in the drilling you speak of. I can only speak from my own 2 decades of pipe smoking experience though.

Brett

[Commander Quan]

I have not had the opportunity to acquire a pre-Republic Pete, but I know lots of guys love them. I'm glad that you have not run across the poor drilling issues that I have. I feel it's unfortunate that a company with such a past as Peterson lets anything that is less than excellent get through, and I know it's not just their lower end pipes. My 999 green spray spigot needs to be broken down and passed with a cleaner at least once per smoke due to the condensation that builds up on the end of the stem.

[cb91710]

I've got 4 Petes. One is a straight Killarney Red Dublin.
Two have a full bend, and the Rhodesian.

Only the straight has a draft hole drilled in a position that allows the cleaner to pass.
The two full bent, I can understand that, but there's no reason that the Rhodesian should not be able to pass a cleaner. It doesn't have much more of a bend than my Tinskey, and it has about the same bend as my homebuilt freehand which will pass a cleaner.

Interestingly, the Dublin has a small tenon... It might be possible to drill it for the small cob style filters, but not the 9mm!

[bnalley]

Commander Quan,
I just tried passing a cleaner through my full bent kinsale and it would not pass. i took it apart and noticed for the first time that the draft hole is drilled a little high in the mortise. I have never took note of it before, as I have never tried to run a cleaner through it with the stem in place. I always break my pipes down for cleaning to make sure and get the condensation out of the shank, and let them dry overnight before reassembly. I never noticed it because my cleaner finds the hole quickly and I needed to shine a pen light in to see that it was a little high.
I stand corrected on this issue. Even old dogs learn new tricks here, thats what I like about this forum.
I wonder if there is not some reason behind having the drill high in the mortise, it seems odd that a Premium pipe maker like peterson would let that pass if it were not that way purposely.

[Commander Quan]

You're Kinsale wouldn't happen to be a XL17 would it? I think that's a great shape.

CB they go have some shapes in their portfolio that obviously not be drilled for a filter, but a large portion of them are think shanked and able to be drilled for one if it was desired.

If my memory serves me Peterson did not release a Fathers Day pipe in the US in 2011, but did in Europe, Every one of the pipes released were 9mm filter pipes. The only way I found out about them was through a European vendors website, and I was concerned that the US release was also going to be filtered, but I guess there was nothing to worry about, they never made it stateside.

[bnalley]

My Peterson Aran full bent ( the only other full bent pete I have) upon close inspection with my pen light has the hole drilled at the top of the mortise also. surely there is a reason for it, as both my Kinsale and Aran full bents are drilled at the top of the mortise.
I never noticed this before. But all of my straight and half bent petes are drilled center.
I just got finished taking them all apart and looking with the trusty pen light!

[bnalley]

Commander,
I'm not sure what the number is, I always just call it a Sherlock shape. It looks like XL11 stamped on the bottom, But the last 1 could be a 7, its light

[cb91710]

I think the thing that bugs me the most about the hole being drilled high is that it allows condensation to collect in the bottom of the mortise and it does not drain back into the bowl simply by holding the pipe with the bowl lower than the bit (which is of course how all of my bent Petes are smoked). So they will tend to smoke a little wetter than others... I'll flip them with the opening of the bowl vertical and sometimes I'll get a bit of popping, sometimes not... then I'll run a lofty pipe cleaner down as far as it will go to soak up what's in the mortise.

It's almost like Pete intended for it to be something of a moisture trap.
Funny enough... the Killarney Dublin smokes quite dry.