Learned an Expensive Ebay lesson

[brucered]

it's contractual. you either sell it to him and take the loss, or go the lowbrow way and don't sell it to him. in which case you will receive NEGATIVE feedback and rightfully so.

if you didn't want to sell for XX dollars, you should have started the auction at your lowest price.

sell it and move one. the ebay guy won it fair and square and deserves to get it.

if you back out now, you run the risk of him bidding on anything else you put up in the future and then backing out and screwing you over.

[CrotalusHH]

I took a peek at your ended listing, and here is my hopefully constructive analysis. For starters, the handle design is certainly going to be a matter of taste, and (please don't be offended) "marital aid" is the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw it. The handle also looks like it would be very slippery when it has water and shaving cream on it. I wouldn't be very interested in a brush that's difficult to hold onto.

As for the listing, you showed essentially the same picture four times. You need to photograph the item from different angles and show some closeups of the knot to give the buyers a better "feel" for it. It's really important to provide buyers as much of a "see, feel, touch" experience as possible through your pictures, and it's no coincidence that the items (mostly talking razors here) that routinely sell for the most money on eBay have a lot of high quality pictures in the listings. Where are the specs? The only measurements you provided in your description was the size of the badger knot as it came from the manufacturer. What is the handle height and diameter? What is the loft set at? Where did you purchase the knot? Buyers might have thought that the loft was set at 65mm, which would be ridiculously floppy.

Again, I hope you take what I say in the constructive manner in which it is intended. I certainly don't mean to belittle the work and effort you put into making this brush.

Criticism noted and well received. I agree with your assessment of the handle shape. My wife said the same thing. I have a couple of nice sized deer antlers for the next couple. I think I will skip the stand for now. It never occurred to me to get more specific about the knot. To me a silvertip knot is a silvertip knot. I just flat don't believe in all the grades of them. While one may be a little scritchier at first I think they all get very soft after some break in. Where I purchased the knot is a secret.

I did set this one a little deeper to give it some more backbone. I should have said so. My rounded tip on the handle was to make it fit the hand better than a flat top. The next couple will have a flat top to make it stand up on it's own. I've seen a few nice ones using bull horn tips that are nicely curved but I haven't figured out how to make a stand for something like that. You would have to either lay it on the counter or leave it in the mug. Hmmm, something is stirring in the back of my foggy brain.

[Go West Young Man]

Criticism noted and well received. I agree with your assessment of the handle shape. My wife said the same thing. I have a couple of nice sized deer antlers for the next couple. I think I will skip the stand for now. It never occurred to me to get more specific about the knot. To me a silvertip knot is a silvertip knot. I just flat don't believe in all the grades of them. While one may be a little scritchier at first I think they all get very soft after some break in. Where I purchased the knot is a secret.

Silvertip is the kind of material used, but the dimensions/etc of the knot are just as important. It's as if you sold a pair of "cotton pants", but neglected to mention the waist or inseam size or the color.

As to where you bought the knot, it's not a question of scooping your trade secrets, but more that every manufacturer makes a slightly different product. To the connoisseur, knowing who made the knot will tell him how dense, floppy, firm, etc. it is.

And if you think all knots end up the same, I'll trade you my collection of Pure brushes for your silvertips, straight up ;)

[insomniac]

It never occurred to me to get more specific about the knot. To me a silvertip knot is a silvertip knot. I just flat don't believe in all the grades of them. While one may be a little scritchier at first I think they all get very soft after some break in. Where I purchased the knot is a secret.

I did set this one a little deeper to give it some more backbone. I should have said so. My rounded tip on the handle was to make it fit the hand better than a flat top. The next couple will have a flat top to make it stand up on it's own. I've seen a few nice ones using bull horn tips that are nicely curved but I haven't figured out how to make a stand for something like that. You would have to either lay it on the counter or leave it in the mug. Hmmm, something is stirring in the back of my foggy brain.

If you are selling it on ebay or BST though, as a potential buyer I'd like to know what kind of knot you were using. TGN, Whipped Dog, or something else? And these come in different grades, you may not be able to tell the difference but the potential buyers can. If you say "I'm using a TGN Finest 22mm knot with a loft of 46mm" I'm going to have a general idea about how the brush is going to perform, and that's going to be different than a TGN Pure which is going to be a bit more prickly. Unknown maker, I have zero idea how dense or soft that hair is going to be.

I suppose you could have a brush that required a stand and just buy a bunch of cheap acrylic stands and package those with it, but most brushes come with a flat base for a reason IMHO.

[Blondie]

Where I purchased the knot is a secret.

There are not that many vendors selling knots out there, and most of us know them, so your secret is probably shared by some of us brush restorers without even knowing it.

[GreekGuy]

To me a silvertip knot is a silvertip knot. I just flat don't believe in all the grades of them.

Even if it is true, which I don't agree with, a crucial rule of selling anything is to know your market. The people who would be interested most likely want to know. It may make no difference to you, but it may make a difference to them. And if you're trying to sell to them, it is to your benefit to provide that information

[global_dev]

i think the secret knot origin on a restore or DIY is almost a deal breaker and a silvertip thater is definitely different than a super vulfix which is different than a silvertip whatever else.. so different, that i won't likely be being certain brushes strictly because of the knot...

as someone who wants to sell brushes for a profit, your brush off of the knot quality as compared the handle is quite interesting.

[echotron]

RE: The OP

I recently won a 2009 Toyota Camry car manual for 1 Cent with $5 s&h. Shortly after the auction ended, I sent a PayPal payment of $5.01.

The seller sent me a message stating that he meant to have had a Reserve of $15 and it isn't worth it to ship the manual for 1 cent. At the end of the message he even let some of his anger show through by stating and I quote:

" I'll happily refund your money since I'm sure you intended to only pay 5.01$ shipped. "

I read this and thought, "Well, duh! I sent the payment already haven't I!"

But I'm a nice guy, so I responded that he could refund my money, but only in US dollars -$5.01- and not that funny foreign money - 5.01$.

He responded that he'd agree to shipping it for the $14.99 difference - which I agreed (its still a bargain) and I sent him the money.

Could I have played "hardball" with him ... sure, but this way it worked out for both of us. (If he had been a real in-your-face jerk - then it would have been on!)

When I sell on eBay, I never start an item lower than the absolute minimum I want for an item ...

[Blondie]

i think the secret knot origin on a restore or DIY is almost a deal breaker and a silvertip thater is definitely different than a super vulfix which is different than a silvertip whatever else.. so different, that i won't likely be being certain brushes strictly because of the knot...

as someone who wants to sell brushes for a profit, your brush off of the knot quality as compared the handle is quite interesting.

+1

[brucered]

i think the secret knot origin on a restore or DIY is almost a deal breaker and a silvertip thater is definitely different than a super vulfix which is different than a silvertip whatever else.. so different, that i won't likely be being certain brushes strictly because of the knot...

as someone who wants to sell brushes for a profit, your brush off of the knot quality as compared the handle is quite interesting.

knot quality is what i base my brushes on, then try to find a handle to match. i'm rubbing the knot of my face, not the handle.

[LeftyT]

The best example of how important a knot is, are Rudy Vey's brushes. A Shavemac knot is much more expensive than a TGN, which has a reputation of being a very good knot. This alone lets us know that you will be getting a great knot, rather than a very good one.

[LeftyT]

The best example of how important a knot is, are Rudy Vey's brushes. A Shavemac knot is much more expensive than a TGN, which has a reputation of being a very good knot. This alone lets us know that you will be getting a great knot, rather than a very good one.

[mmack66]

If you don't care about the knot, which is the essential part of a shaving brush, why is where you got it a secret, unless someone illegally killed a badger to get the hair?

[denim]

Well, we know of someone who found a dead badger. Maybe now we know what happened to it.

[Illadelphia]

After not having any luck on the BST, I put a Mont Blanc pen on the bay. Cleared stated US only. With 15 watchers and a few hours left I imagined the bid sniping would begin soon (usually does). Until some genius from Australia with 1 feedback clicked BIN and then asked that I'd ship it to him.

[Gamad]

That is kind of unfair - cancelling the auction if you didn't get the price you wanted. That's the way an open type of auction goes - you can win or lose. It's like demanding your money back after you lost it in a Poker game. Just think how would the bidders feel. You should of put a minimum price if that is how you feel right now. And I can't understand how is it that you even thought it could be legitimate to call off the sell if the highest bid wasn't high enough for you.

p.s
I don't think a seller can just refuse to hand you the item after the sell ends. It's not that he will get a negative response, I think that he will get a permanent ban from Ebay - maybe not the first time, but the second or something like that. I once won an auction without a reserve at an incredibly low price, and I knew the seller was mad as hell, but he couldn't just tell me he doesn't want to give me the item I won. He just asked for a high shipping price, but that was all he could do.

Another thing is that someone here said that "in some point Ebay stopped protecting sellers". I find that strange. What protection exactly the seller needs? It's the buyers that need the protection from dishonest sellers. There are 10.000 ways in which a dishonest seller can hurt the buyer, but what can the buyer do to the seller? Nothing, more or less. That's why even now, with all the buyer-protection policies, Ebay is still full of dishonest sellers that con and swindle thousands of buyers every day. Actually, it's the other way around - if you're a buyer it's enough for you to not pay for an item two times to get a life ban (no excuses accepted), but if you're a seller, you have a sea of opportunities to make your life's living out of endlessly swindling people on Ebay in all sort of ways. Let me tell you a little story. I won an item, paid, and the seller said that he had shipped it to me. I didn't ask for a registered shipping, just a regular type. Time went by and I didn't get the item. I told that to the seller, and he returned me my money. Some time after that I learnt that after the auction ended someone privately proposed this seller a higher price for that item, and he immediately sent it to him, while saying to me that it was on it's way, completely prepared and happy to refund me in a couple of weeks but to get the higher price the other guy gave him. Just one of the many ways... Oh yeah, we need more seller protection...

[Doc4]

If I had been able to stop the auction, I would have. I'm not going to refuse to send it now.

I'm sure there are sellers out there willing to do that. I'm not one of them.

That's the honourable course of action ... no surprise that you are a B&B member!

Where I purchased the knot is a secret.

The more information you are willing to freely disclose up front in your e-Bay sales, the better your sales will go. If you don't disclose, guys will suspect the worst ... that it's some shady third-world sweat-shop shedder. (As a general rule, for me when shopping on the internet, I assume that if the seller doesn't say where the item was made or by whom, then the seller assumes that disclosing the information would lessen his chances of making a sale. Conversely, it seems that anything made anywhere or by anyone of 'prestige' ... they tell you where it was made.)

After not having any luck on the BST, I put a Mont Blanc pen on the bay. Cleared stated US only. With 15 watchers and a few hours left I imagined the bid sniping would begin soon (usually does). Until some genius from Australia with 1 feedback clicked BIN and then asked that I'd ship it to him.

"Of course I'll ship it to you ... anywhere you want in the USA"

[CrotalusHH]

If you are selling it on ebay or BST though, as a potential buyer I'd like to know what kind of knot you were using. TGN, Whipped Dog, or something else? And these come in different grades, you may not be able to tell the difference but the potential buyers can. If you say "I'm using a TGN Finest 22mm knot with a loft of 46mm" I'm going to have a general idea about how the brush is going to perform, and that's going to be different than a TGN Pure which is going to be a bit more prickly. Unknown maker, I have zero idea how dense or soft that hair is going to be.

I suppose you could have a brush that required a stand and just buy a bunch of cheap acrylic stands and package those with it, but most brushes come with a flat base for a reason IMHO.

Ok, since you seem to have more experience with different knots than I do, would you do me the favor of ranking the knots you mention and what your opinions of the different knots are?

I'm really interested.

I just find it hard to believe that since all the knots are made in china that there is that much difference. I have lot of experience with other things where a lot of different mfg's all come out of the same box.

Gasoline is one example. All the trucks for all the different gasoline brands come out of the same pipe no matter what they claim about their different additives.

[mmack66]

That is kind of unfair - cancelling the auction if you didn't get the price you wanted. That's the way an open type of auction goes - you can win or lose. It's like demanding your money back after you lost it in a Poker game. Just think how would the bidders feel. You should of put a minimum price if that is how you feel right now. And I can't understand how is it that you even thought it could be legitimate to call off the sell if the highest bid wasn't high enough for you.

p.s
I don't think a seller can just refuse to hand you the item after the sell ends. It's not that he will get a negative response, I think that he will get a permanent ban from Ebay - maybe not the first time, but the second or something like that. I once won an auction without a reserve at an incredibly low price, and I knew the seller was mad as hell, but he couldn't just tell me he doesn't want to give me the item I won. He just asked for a high shipping price, but that was all he could do.

Another thing is that someone here said that "in some point Ebay stopped protecting sellers". I find that strange. What protection exactly the seller needs? It's the buyers that need the protection from dishonest sellers. There are 10.000 ways in which a dishonest seller can hurt the buyer, but what can the buyer do to the seller? Nothing, more or less. That's why even now, with all the buyer-protection policies, Ebay is still full of dishonest sellers that con and swindle thousands of buyers every day. Actually, it's the other way around - if you're a buyer it's enough for you to not pay for an item two times to get a life ban (no excuses accepted), but if you're a seller, you have a sea of opportunities to make your life's living out of endlessly swindling people on Ebay in all sort of ways. Let me tell you a little story. I won an item, paid, and the seller said that he had shipped it to me. I didn't ask for a registered shipping, just a regular type. Time went by and I didn't get the item. I told that to the seller, and he returned me my money. Some time after that I learnt that after the auction ended someone privately proposed this seller a higher price for that item, and he immediately sent it to him, while saying to me that it was on it's way, completely prepared and happy to refund me in a couple of weeks but to get the higher price the other guy gave him. Just one of the many ways... Oh yeah, we need more seller protection...

For one, Ebay no longer allows a seller to leave negative feedback for a buyer. Plus, there are numerous examples of buyers taking advantage of sellers, and the seller is often left with no merchandise and no payment for that merchandise. eBay and PayPal often will side with the buyer, even if the seller is in the right. There are bad eggs on both sides of eBay transactions.

[¢orey]

Sorry about the ebay sale. Agree with Ras' advice. Would suggest that similar items go up on b/s/t. I regularly buy from there and almost never look at the Bay because there are too many unknowns.