Frank Shaving Brushes? Really?

**Blondie** · 05-17-2012, 05:17 AM

So I picked up one of these on a lark. Truthfully, I just liked the handle. It's a Butterscotch Portland. While I still like the handle, I have to say, these things suck. They seem to get a lot of love around here, but I'm not feeling it. The knot is set slightly off, a little angle. Knot isn't very dense, and the loft is just ridiculously stupid. Was it cheap? Well, 30 bucks shipped. Is it maybe that lot's of new shavers buy them since they are affordable and do not have a lot to compare it to? For the record, I have used various boars, the B&B brush with the frosted handle, small M&F, Omega Silvertips, Omega Pure, and TGN Grade A Silvertip, and lot's of TGN Finest in handles I have restored. Restores are probably my favorites after the M&F. I will probably replace the knot with a TGN, and set it properly after polishing off the Logo.

**maxzoran** · 05-17-2012, 05:54 AM

What grade of knot did you get? I find the finest to be pretty nice actually. You may want to contact Ian about the quality of the knot set...he's more than reasonable

**melyus** · 05-17-2012, 05:56 AM

Hi Phil,
Any pictures ? i have many FS brushes so they arent the best but not too bad also.. in my FS lot i have only 1 defect brush until today and when i request replacement he sent out new one after a month.. Maybe you have to use B&B power as well.

Regards.

**Neognosis** · 05-17-2012, 06:06 AM

A chinese brush is not as good as one hand made in spain or the UK or Germany? I'm stunned.

A simpson Case would have cost you only a few dollars more.

If you really like the handle, consider removing the knot and sending it to someone like Rudy Vey to put a decent knot in it.

**Blondie** · 05-17-2012, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by maxzoran

What grade of knot did you get? I find the finest to be pretty nice actually. You may want to contact Ian about the quality of the knot set...he's more than reasonable

Grade of the Knot is finest.

Originally Posted by melyus

Hi Phil,
Any pictures ? i have many FS brushes so they arent the best but not too bad also.. in my FS lot i have only 1 defect brush until today and when i request replacement he sent out new one after a month.. Maybe you have to use B&B power as well.

Regards.

Pics:

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The slight mis-set of the knot I could probably live with. I is the loft I am most disappointed in. Super Floppy.

Originally Posted by Neognosis

A chinese brush is not as good as one hand made in spain or the UK? I'm stunned.

A simpson Case would have cost you only a few dollars more.

If you really like the handle, consider removing the knot and sending it to someone like Rudy Vey to put a decent knot in it.

Of course I did not expect it to perform like my M&F. I thought it would be on par with the TGN finest knots, that's all.

Can you provide a link to the Simpsons brush to which you refer? I am not really all that familiar with all of their line, can be a bit confusing at times, so I have never really done a deep dive into all their offerings.

If I decide to reknot, I will just get a TGN and set it myself, it's not all that hard if you have a drill press.

**redrako** · 05-17-2012, 06:31 AM

I have used a variety of Frank Shave brushes over the past two years so paid attention to threads about FS.

The general trend has been a great improvement of quality matched by an almost equal increase in prices to the point that they have almost doubled in the past two years.

Phil, yours is the second post that I've seen on various shave forums about 'crooked knots'. There was speculation that perhaps Frank Shave was having some quality control issues as it's grown in scope. I would contact the seller and see about exchanging or returning the brush.

IMO, I agree with Justin about the finest grade hair. I have a 24mm butterscotch Richmond in finest and it's a nice mix of density, softness and backbone. At the same time, it's about a year old and I'm not confident that if I bought the same brush today, that it would be the same quality. At the price point that it is being sold at, I'm starting to think that for a few more dollars I'm into the range of buying a lower cost Simpson or comparable brush.

**Neognosis** · 05-17-2012, 06:38 AM

Can you provide a link to the Simpsons brush to which you refer? I am not really all that familiar with all of their line, can be a bit confusing at times, so I have never really done a deep dive into all their offerings.

This is the Case:

http://www.westcoastshaving.com/Simp...-C1_p_545.html

THis is the berkeley:

http://www.westcoastshaving.com/Berkeley_c_100.html

For a few more dollars, you get a much better product (IMO) but what you also get to do is support an English craftsman and a heritage and culture of fine workmanship and pride, instead of supporting communist china where these brushes are made by who knows working under who knows what conditions. Of course, nearly all badger hair comes from china..........

I'm not sure how anyone holds a chinese made brush in their hand and feels anything remotely resembling the sense of craftsmanship and pride you get when you hold a simpson or shavemac or Rudy Vey custom.

And that's about all I got to say about that.

**sp514** · 05-17-2012, 06:50 AM

I would definitely contact the seller and ask for a replacement. He should take care of it.

**Slash McCoy** · 05-17-2012, 08:10 AM

I notice the FS brush prices have increased dramatically in the last 3 or 4 months.

**melyus** · 05-17-2012, 08:11 AM

Phil,
You have to request replacement my friend .. This is very bad example i have ever seen.
btw this is why im buying FS knots and handles seperately and putting knots little bit deeper.

**ouch** · 05-17-2012, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Blondie

So I picked up one of these on a lark. Truthfully, I just liked the handle. It's a Butterscotch Portland. While I still like the handle, I have to say, these things suck.

Don't. Stop. Don't stop.

Originally Posted by sp514

I would definitely contact the seller and ask for a replacement. He should take care of it.

Perhaps he could PM the seller. Oh, yeah, that's right.

**maxzoran** · 05-17-2012, 08:55 AM

Sending PM with Ian's email address

**dom1357** · 05-17-2012, 09:48 AM

I had a Frank silvertip for about a year and had no problems with it and I liked it. I sold it to get a Semogue OC, but if I get another badger, it would most likely be another Frank.

**Absolute Mustard** · 05-17-2012, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Neognosis

This is the Case:

http://www.westcoastshaving.com/Simp...-C1_p_545.html

THis is the berkeley:

http://www.westcoastshaving.com/Berkeley_c_100.html

For a few more dollars, you get a much better product (IMO) but what you also get to do is support an English craftsman and a heritage and culture of fine workmanship and pride, instead of supporting communist china where these brushes are made by who knows working under who knows what conditions. Of course, nearly all badger hair comes from china..........

I'm not sure how anyone holds a chinese made brush in their hand and feels anything remotely resembling the sense of craftsmanship and pride you get when you hold a simpson or shavemac or Rudy Vey custom.

And that's about all I got to say about that.

This man speaks the truth

**jdto** · 05-17-2012, 11:06 AM

Your sample of one vs. the many happy FS users around the forums. I'm boggled by the thought process. Just because you got one that has an issue, the logical conclusion is "these things suck".

I had a bad experience with someone from Dallas once. Because of that experience, I have come to the perfectly reasonable and logical conclusion that everyone from that city is a jerk. Right? That's a logical conclusion, right?

I have a FS brush. It's not my nicest brush, but for the money it is a good brush. It makes lather, puts the lather on my face and doesn't fall to pieces. While doing so, it feels comfortable in my hand and on my face. I will therefore conclude that these brushes, do not, in fact, suck. But my conclusion, similarly based on a sample of one, is just as valid as yours.

**professorchaos** · 05-17-2012, 11:19 AM

Interestingly, specious arguments reveal more via what they don't say than what they do say.

**dom1357** · 05-17-2012, 11:49 AM

When i first bought the silvertip the price was a lot less than other brushes. But as mentioned above, the prices have increased. I don't know why, but after my experience with the one i had, i wouldn't think twice about getting another.
As jdto says above, it makes lather and puts it on his face and doesn't fall to pieces. It works as a brush should work. and after the initial few shedded hairs, it didn't lose another hair the rest of the time I had it. To me, it was built well and worked great, the logo rubbed off in the first week, but that has no affect on lathering. It lathered like a fiend to be honest, would be able to go much more than 3 passes if you needed to.

**ouch** · 05-17-2012, 11:55 AM

Such remarkable allegiance.

**Blondie** · 05-17-2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by jdto

Your sample of one vs. the many happy FS users around the forums. I'm boggled by the thought process. Just because you got one that has an issue, the logical conclusion is "these things suck".

I had a bad experience with someone from Dallas once. Because of that experience, I have come to the perfectly reasonable and logical conclusion that everyone from that city is a jerk. Right? That's a logical conclusion, right?

I have a FS brush. It's not my nicest brush, but for the money it is a good brush. It makes lather, puts the lather on my face and doesn't fall to pieces. While doing so, it feels comfortable in my hand and on my face. I will therefore conclude that these brushes, do not, in fact, suck. But my conclusion, similarly based on a sample of one, is just as valid as yours.

Actually, yes, you're spot on. Folks from Dallas are absolute jerks, I mean, just look at JR Ewing. We do really unreasonable things like voice our opinions without a filter. I had a sole purpose with this thread and that was to be what seemed to be the lone voice of dissent regarding these brushes, sometimes you get a mob mentality around here and the less experienced members follow and may not get an even view of the hobby as a result.

It seems these brushes were a better value at the lower price point. Now the price is going up and the quality going down. Not the usual direction a company takes with it's products. Maybe instead of re=knotting it I should do a pass around with it and see if others share the opinion.

**dom1357** · 05-17-2012, 12:47 PM

i think you're last couple sentences are the biggest take home points. at a lower price they are definitely a deal. if the quality is really going down while the price goes up, then that would cause me to rethink another purchase. if you got a replacement and it was of the same quality then you might be on to something. if the replacement is perfect and as you originally expected it to be, then you just got a lemon. i was just sharing my experience with the single brush that I had. That is the only Frank I've seen and that's all I have to base my opinion on.