What am I Trying to Prove?

[BlackBard]

Partial quote:

So this morning after looking in the mirror and seeing all the razor burn, I started wondering: Why am I doing this? What am I trying to prove? I know I can eliminate the discomfort by using fewer passes or only going with the grain, but then my shave still takes 15 minutes and isn't as close as my electric. I'll probably experiment with this for another month, but right now I'm leaning toward going back to an electric.

This is a core question. Why do we shave the way we do? I started with a DE as a young man. Switched to carts along the way. I was perfectly satisfied with my Mach 3. I got irritation-free close shaves and a single cart lasted two weeks of daily shaving.

I came to B&B searching for recommendations for a brush to replace the one I had worn out. I decided to see if I could return to a DE and won a Gillette Red Tip in a PIF. I was so excited when it came.

I got terrible results. So much irritation that I looked sunburned all day. So, after a few more attempts, I gave up and returned to my trusted Mach 3. I PIFed the Red Tip to another member.

My failure to master DE shaving bothered me to the point that I bought a Slim on BST, thinking that an adjustable would give me some blade exposure options that the other DE did not. I was determined to give it one last try. Success was measured in terms of reasonably close shave and no irritation. I had done it.

I next got the same razor you have and have settled on the same blade (Astra SP). Lather was never a problem for me, but relearning to shave with a DE was the challenge.

Why do I shave with a DE? Save money (no AD's). Cool traditional equipment. Better results than I got with a cartridge razor.
And, finally, the satisfaction of mastering a new skill.

Sorry for the long post. It just seemed to take on a life of its own.

[edgerunner]

I think we all make the mistake of putting the stress too much on the razor and the blade combo. Even before returning to DE shaving, I'd neglected the importance of using good quality soaps/creams and face preparation. After my initial RAD and BAD settled, and I started experimenting with brushes and software, I understood that most of my bad experience in the beginning had been as a result of bad preparation and bad lather. That's why very often at the forum you can read that you shouldn't discard some blades and razors that you don't like. When you revisit them in a few months or so, you'll be surprised how much better they work. So my advise also is make sure you prepare a lot of good lather for your shaves, wash your face with hot water and use cleanser if you like. Also, take your time, enjoy what you're doing for whatever time it takes, and don't try to accomplish BBS shave. Don't do too many passes, and go only WTG until you achieve irritation free consistent results.

[RevSmoke]

I am also fairly new to this whole wetshaving with a DE razor. I experienced some razor burn at first as well. If I might, here was my solution:

1) Blade angle is critical. Once I got this down almost all my problems disappeared.
2) Face-mapping also helped considerably. I know there is something out there that speaks about this, but for the life of me I cannot find it at present. But, let your beard grow a day and then simply feel it in very small sections - you want to find the direction in which your beard grows over each and every square inch of your face. This is important for your first past to be WTG, your next to be XTG, and the 3rd to be ATG. Assume nothing. Just because a portion of your check has the graing running toward your ear, doesn't mean the whole thing does.

I have found that by being gentle, I can feel when I am rubbing WTG, XTG, and ATG and map out my whole face. I know shave according to the map - which now comes second nature to me. Seriously though, draw the map out on a piece of paper so that you can follow it for a few weeks.

These two things changed my attitude toward DE wetshaving dramatically.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

Todd

[awa54]

What am I Trying to Prove?

I'd say, don't try to *prove* anything, rather if you want to get your "best" shave, stick with wet/DE shaving until you are either sure that it isn't for you, or you get the shave you were looking for.

Obviously most of us here are firmly in the pro-wet shaving column, but if it doesn't work out for you and the electric does, go with what works!

That said, I think my results are still improving at over six months being back in DE shaving, so if you are inclined to keep with it a while longer you may yet find the perfect wet shave.

P.S. personally I got *good* shaves right from the beginning, but only got *excellent* shaves after a month or so of shaving every day with a DE razor....I believe that I progressed so quickly because I came from a background of having learned to shave with a DE razor when I was a teenager then more recently wet shaving with a brush and soap, but using a cartridge razor, so It was more a remembering of my old skill set rather than learning a completely new one. If you have either been away from wet shaving for a long time or have never done it before, then expect mastery to take a while longer :P

[jamesspo]

All great ideas, and I think prep and technique probably is the key thing here. However, based on what you're saying about the number of passes and irritation, it makes me wonder if you might be better suited with a shallower blade angle. By that, I don't mean a different angle with your DE89, there's only a certain angle range over which you'll get blade contact with that razor, and it will be in the middle angles (25-35 degrees). I mean using something like a vintage Gillette New (long comb or short comb). The geometry on these razors encourages a shallow blade angle (15 - 25 degrees), and that might benefit you if you're getting irritation. If you're ok with spending a little to just experiment, it might be worth it to try something radically different, to see how it does for you. If you did this, you should only change the razor, and leave the software the same.

[Oblique Human]

You are doing something very wrong in your DE routine to still get all those in-growns and irritation. Chuck the DE89, try a vintage Gillette TTO. Some are always turning up on the BST. Get an adjustable if you can. Last month, you're hurting anyway.

[Jbum]

Switch to a shave oil instead of a lather that is all I use. Can get a bbs in 5 to 6 minutes after a shower with a R41.

[cluelessdude]

Listen to me, I also was confused what benefit I was getting from DE as my shades aren't as close as with cartridges. Here is what you do: buy an R41 razor. Use it with Feather, Astra or Personna Meds. Less passes, shave time reduced, closest shave you'll ever get. Problems solved.

[lancj1]

Your not trying to prove anything. Do what suits. I love the de ritual but I can get just as good a shave with a cart or disposable using shower gel in the shower. I did that for years and who knows, may do so again.

Wouldn't know an ingrown is I met onee

[Froggy]

If you decide to go back to the electric just clean up your DE razors and put them away but whatever you do don't sell them. I would guess within the next few months or year you will want to come back to wet shaving. Good luck.

[Daiku]

My experience is essentially the opposite. I found that cart shaving would occasionally irritate spots on my face, I had ingrown hairs, and small patches of my face would be, so to speak, undershaved. When I got my wetshaving technique down, the first thing I noticed was a much more even shave all around. After a while, I noticed that I had no ingrown hairs, less or no irritation, and my skin looked better. Yes, it takes longer, but for me the results are well worth it. Plus, it's a pretty harmless hobby, and only as expensive as you want it to be.

The guys who said you need to work on your blade angle are right.. You can alternate between your electric and DE shaving. Or try a milder razor. I started off on a Feather Popular with Feather blades, but I didn't hit my stride until I settled down to a Tech with an Astra SP. I'm trying a blue-tip SS next.

[mattface]

OK, you'll get a lot of feedback, and a lot of what I have to say echoes others, but let me just add this:

I was lucky, and found my technique relatively easily, but shaving did take me longer at first when I switched from carts to DE, and I did get some razor burn on my neck. A year or so in, the whole routine has become second nature. I NEVER get razor burn, and I can give myself a reasonable shave in well under 10 minutes. Last night I was late for an event, so I stopped cleaning my apartment at 7:50, showered, shaved (2 passes head, cheeks and neck), dressed myself and was out the door by 8:03. So DE shaving doesn't HAVE to take a long time.

That said. Switching from electric to any bladed razor has got to be a much steeper learning curve, so give it some time take it slow, and try to enjoy the process. My girlfriend likes to say DE shaving feels luxurious, like pampering herself whereas the same routine with a cartridge razor just felt like an odious task. So if you change your thinking to you're going to pamper your face, do things that will make it feel good, it might change your whole approach, and then hopefully your results. At first, worry more about not hurting yourself than getting an uber close shave, once you learn to use the tool, then you can focus on using it well. I agree with people who say "no pressure" once you learn to shave your own face you can forget you ever heard that, but for now while you're learning it it may just be the key to avoiding razor burn.

[kingfisher]

I was just thinking about your original question "what am I trying to prove"?

anyway, thinking about that, it occurred to me that maybe you're trying to prove that you can master a new skill. The more I think about it, the more I think that's why I stuck with it after vowing to quit about 4 times and actually quitting at least twice. I was trying to prove that I could actually do it. That I could learn to get a good shave with the old tools. That after that if I decided to shave with a cartridge it would be because I WANTED to shave with a cartridge, not because I was UNABLE to shave with a DE.

Now that I've proven it to myself, I don't really want to shave with a cartridge anymore.

[rxonmymind]

Don't know. But set aside your DE routine for the weekends when you have luxurious amount of time to dedicate yourself to...you. Not time. Go slow & enjoy.

[Maxime D.]

I had 3 different electric razors, back in the days, none of them left me without irritations. So far, each time I tried, my face was so dry. I chose DE for 2 reasons, the price of the carts and the possibility to shave with a fresh blade everyday day if it please me.

[Ski-Patroller]

I've been shaving with a double-edged safety razor for about two months now. I've got an EJ DE89L, I've tried about seven different blades, and four different creams and soaps. While I've found one or two blades that are better than the rest and one cream that I like above all the others, even my best combination leaves a lot to be desired.

I decided to try this kind of shaving because a lot of times I find that doing things the "old fashioned" way is a lot better than the modern way. I liked the low cost, less waste, and the fact that I was going to slow down and enjoy shaving rather than treat it as an obligation.

In the past 10-15 years, I've mostly shaved with a Braun electric. Here's my experience after two months.

DE Shaving

• Takes me 20-25 minutes and at least four passes to get a decent shave.
• Gets a little closer than my electric in some areas, mainly on the cheeks.
• Slightly fewer ingrown hairs.
• Irritates my face enough that I can only shave every other day. Every day is just not possible.
• No local suppliers

Electric Shaving

• Takes 5 minutes.
• Leaves no irritation so I can shave every day.
• Costs slightly more
• Slightly more ingrown hairs

So this morning after looking in the mirror and seeing all the razor burn, I started wondering: Why am I doing this? What am I trying to prove? I know I can eliminate the discomfort by using fewer passes or only going with the grain, but then my shave still takes 15 minutes and isn't as close as my electric. I'll probably experiment with this for another month, but right now I'm leaning toward going back to an electric.

My experience is almost the opposite. I get almost no irritation with DE blades, (3 passes, shave every day) but my electrics (Norelco, Braun etc.) irritated my face and gave me razor burn. Once you have your technique down, 20 to 25 minutes is too long. I expect it takes me about 3-5 minutes to build the lather and prep. Probably about 2 minutes per pass and a couple of minutes to rinse and clean up the area. 10 to 15 minutes if I'm not in a hurry. Less if I need to rush. I mostly use a Futur, but If I'm in a hurry, I sometimes use a Feather AS. It is not quicker, but I can move faster because it is much less likely to cut or slice and the shave will be "OK" The times I had significant irritation, I think I can blame it on too much pressure. When I first got my Feather AS it felt like I was shaving with no blade, and I tended to put some pressure on it. It caused irritation and when I let up and let the razor do the work, the irritation disappeared.

I have always had an electric around for quick touch up, but before DE I mostly used cartridges and a Brush. Since discovering DE blades a few years ago, I have only used the Electric once, and my never use it again.

[jsj_297]

U should give the ej89 a few more months at least. It's the smoothest and least aggressive razor out tbere.

[LiveOak]

Anytime you move from one type of shaving to another, irritation is going to happen. Your face is accustomed to an electric. If I were to use an electric now I would be dragging that thing all over my face trying to get a shave comparable to my DE, and my face would be on fire. My guess is you are using the same rough touch with your DE that you used with your electric. The difference is that the electric didn't have a blade right against your face. So many have suggested a lighter touch, and it's good advice.

It's not just pressure, it's learning a totally new way to shave. Shaving with an electric and shaving with a DE are nothing alike. You need to learn a new set of skills and a new type of muscle memory than is required with the electric. You will get the feel of it. My first month of shaves with a DE were horrendous. I don't know how I didn't give up on it. My face felt like it had been stung by a hundred bees (and looked like it too). Little by little the technique became second nature.

Don't give up. Practice and patience will reward you greatly.

[Icebear]

....Even before returning to DE shaving, I'd neglected the importance of using good quality soaps/creams and face preparation. ... that most of my bad experience in the beginning had been as a result of bad preparation and bad lather. ...

All great ideas, and I think prep and technique probably is the key thing here. ....

Hey Joe,
I would also suspect sub-prime lather to be essentially the problem. Between each pass you must clean your face and re-lather properly. If you have a really rich lather with the right amount of water, this should give your skin sufficient protection from razor burn. To easily get a super quality lather I highly recommend a VieLong horse hair bursh, relatively affordable compared to silvertip badgers and produces great lather in no time. Good luck on your improvement. Wet shaving requires a little more effort and attention but with everything it will be much more satisfying once you'v e got it right.

[Pkrankow]

If you are "trying to prove something" then this isn't for you. Go back to the electric and don't worry about it.

Mild razors are OK, but a more aggressive razor may be helpful. That said, a mild razor can and will give a good shave when technique is good. More aggressive razors have a wider blade gap than mild razors. Open comb are frequently mild, but because they are built differently, they may preform more aggressively, but in a very forgiving manner.

Try a week of 2 passes, then stop. Do touch ups by sight (if it looks bad, fix it, don't feel around for touch ups). Your shave should be smoother 30 minutes afterwards compared to when you just finished (the hair returns to its normal position). EXPECT 2 passes to be a Socially Acceptable Shave. Focus on angle, no pressure, having a slow smooth shave. You can pick your passes for effectiveness, but only pick 2 for a given shave.

Stick to your best blades and put the others in a bag of shame for now. You may want to revisit them later, but not soon.

Phil