"A" shirts (tank tops) versus "tee" shirts and undershirts in general & Cary Grant

[The Knize]

Some of this has probably been discussed in the "done with Hanes" thread. I apologize if I am being lazy.

Also, to be clear right out of the gate, when I refer to an "A" shirt or tank top, I am referring to a sleeveless undershirt, referred to in some quarters, but not on B&B, as a "beater" or even a "wife beater." (B&B institutionally considers those terms highly inappropriate, and I think rightfully so. I am frankly amazed that at the frequency with which they so up on the internet.) The Brits seem to refer to these as "vests."

I suppose a "muscle shirt" has evolved to mean something like an A shirt with wide straps or a sleeveless tee shirt, but I am not 100% sure. Also, although this would make sense to me too wear as an "undershirt" it may be that it seems to be relegated to use strictly as a shirt worn on its own.

First, do we think wearing an undershirt of any kind under a dress shirt is "high class" or "low class." I was very surprised to see the suggestion elsewhere on the web that to wear an undershirt was seen by some as "lower class," as a way of penny-pinching, I guess, in order to keep a dress shirt clean for multiple wearings. And that it was especially déclassé to let any part of an undershirt show, but in particular to let the neck of a crew-necked undershirt show when the top button of a dress shirt was unbuttoned. But some also seemed to say that letting the outline of a tee shirt or perhaps especially an A shirt show through the fabric of a dress shirt was déclassé. What do folks here think? My thinking had been that in a business context, especially where one is expected to and is wearing a tie that an undershirt was traditionally de riguer. That what was déclassé to allow to show through one's shirt was chest hair and nipples, not that one takes one's suit coat off casually in any event. That to have someone think that one was not wearing an undershirt would be the equivalent of having someone think one was not wearing boxers or briefs. That skin contact was simply not the role of a fine dress shirt. Cary Grant in "It Happened One Night" took off his shirt exposing a bare chest. But this was seen as a radical thing, that to me applied only to a casually worn shirt, not business attire, although it has been a long time since I saw the movie. It is said that undershirt sales dipped 60% almost immediately after that movie was released.

Second, are A shirts properly business undershirts? If the straps of an A shirt show through say a white business shirt, is that déclassé? I hate to admit that my knowledge is limited and I may be biased, but I would say that traditionally an A shirt is every bit as proper as a tee shirt. This may be because A shirts pre-date tee shirts, I do not know. Part of why I say this is that one of my mentors, who if alive would be well over 100 now, was always dressed impeccably (as far as I could tell, and I would beat real money on it) in a suit and tie for work, and he always wore an A shirt. Now it may or may not have evolved that A shirts came to look a bit old-fashioned, but my guess is that they have never, ever become inappropriate business attire.

Now some would say that they wear tee shirts under dress shirts at least in part so that sweat around the arm pits will be absorbed and not soak through the outer dress shirt. This is a legit point and a tee shirt helps for sure. I just do not think that makes a tee shirt rather than an A shirt required.

Third, some argue that the v-necked tee is now more appropriate than the crew-neck tee because when a business shirt is worn open, the neck of the undershirt should not show. I could go old school here and say that "a business shirt should always be worn with a tie, so this problem is impossibility" <g> but I won't. I think the traditional rule, looking to traditional preppy dress as to broadcloth/Oxford cloth shirts, is that there is nothing whatever wrong with the crew-neck of an undershirt showing. Some would argue that having that show is much more proper than having a big tuft of chest hair showing, which would never be proper in a business context. I think anything works--whether v-neck, crew-neck, or A shirt. In a business context one should still, at least traditionally, be wearing an undershirt of some sort in order to be considered fully dressed.

All of this said, for years I never wore any kind of undershirt with a dress shirt and tie, because I hated the feeling of bulk and confinement of a tee shirt and thought that A shirts were both very old-fashioned and perhaps a bit lower class. I really hated the idea of the "straps" on an A shirt showing through the dress shirt. I tended to wear Oxford rather than broad cloth shirt and in blue rather than in white to provide some opacity. However, I came to think--"realize" may be the better word, but makes it seem more embarrassing!--that I was just too darkly hairy to be wearing a dress shirt without some kind of under shirt. I still dislike the bulk and confinement of a tee shirt, so most often wear an A shirt, but I admit that I wear a tee shirt in dressier circumstances for fear that the straps of an A shirt tend to show and will make me look out of place one way or the other.

So what thoughts do folks have? Can others on-line be correct that not wearing an undershirt under a dress shirt is actually the proper thing?

Are A shirts out? Are crew-necked undershirts out and only v-necks acceptable? If the latter is so, must one trim one's chest hair in the modern age to wear business attire? (I do not think the latter is going to be popular around here!) Deep v-neck shirts look a little affected to me!

Also, I have been trying to get the straps on A shirts to be less visible under my dress shirts. Some say that heather gray undershirts disguise the lines where they meet the skin better than white ones do. Does anyone find this to be true? Seems to me it is still easy to see lines of an A shirt under a white shirt, anyway. Anyone have any experiences or thoughts to share?

[I think I know something about traditional rules of "men's dress," but as I time goes by, I become less sure. BTW, I am not saying that one has to follow these traditional rules. I certainly do not consistently follow any set of such rules.

[datzc]

I asked a similar question here:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...usiness-casual

and in searching the Internet found several sites that have "deep" V-necks.

[The Knize]

I asked a similar question here:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...usiness-casual

and in searching the Internet found several sites that have "deep" V-necks.

Thanks. Similar, yes. Business casual seems to confuse everything!

[the_edski]

I agree with you, Robbie. Business casual has so many different interpretations, it almost like beating your head against a wall to try and get a consensus.

[Prince]

I never wear an undershirt to save money. With the hot weather we have, I like the extra layer to help keep me dry.

Since I'm used to it, I can't wear a dress shirt without it now. Plus, I'm in a pretty white collar industry and when I see a guy who isn't wearing an undershirt, it looks weird.

[nole1]

I never wear an undershirt to save money. With the hot weather we have, I like the extra layer to help keep me dry.

Since I'm used to it, I can't wear a dress shirt without it now. Plus, I'm in a pretty white collar industry and when I see a guy who isn't wearing an undershirt, it looks weird.

+1. I started wearing tee undershirts with polos as a teenager in high school to help stay dry and have stuck with it ever since. I tried A shirts for a while but could not get used to them. It just didn't feel right.While it baffled my now wife when we first met, I now wear them under everything (regular tshirts as well). It has become something that is simply more comfortable.

There are 3 of us in my office and two wear tee undershirts and one wears A shirts but a suit as well almost every day. His A shirt is visible every day and, personally, I don't think it looks very good.

[likehotbutter]

I like my shirts tailored extremely fitting and with some fabrics, especially the white cottons, a v-neck undershirt is needed to prevent nipple "exposure" lol

[Doc4]

I apologize if I am being lazy.

... he says, just before typing two and a half pages.


My thoughts on undershirts ... they are underwear, and "underwear shouldn't be seen." (Okay, if a very attractive young lady has some very skimpy thong panties poking above some very tight low-rise jeans, I'm okay with that ... but young uber-hotties get to play by their own set of rules that don't apply to us.)

Okay, if you've stopped daydreaming, I'll continue.

Almost any white dress shirt will allow a white undershirt to show through at the edges. That's ugly. T-shirts are okay, and the edges are halfway down the arm and I can't muster the effort to be bothered much. (Besides, if you keep your suit jacket on, no one sees.) But the straps of the 'A' shirt show through in the most unsightly and poorly located ways. Just don't do it.

(I never heard anyone say that wearing an undershirt was "upper class" or "lower class" &c ... maybe people say it or think it, but I've never encountered that and wouldn't think it.)

I would also think the T to be more practical than the A for those who wear an undershirt for sweat-control reasons. If you want a layer of undershirt between your sweaty body and your dress shirt (so that less sweat soaks into/through your shirt) ... it seems like you'd want to make sure the undershirt covered your armpits. No?

As for getting the undershirts to be less visible through dress shirts ... yes, I can see using undershirts that are closer to "skin tone" (whatever that might be) as a way of making them less noticeable, and also you need to look at the thickness/density of your shirting fabric.

[DarrenEff]

Now some would say that they wear tee shirts under dress shirts at least in part so that sweat around the arm pits will be absorbed and not soak through the outer dress shirt. This is a legit point and a tee shirt helps for sure. I just do not think that makes a tee shirt rather than an A shirt required.

I started off wearing "undershirts" under my dress shirts, for that very reason: to absorb sweat. However, I quickly discovered that the undershirt caused me to sweat more, so I switched to wearing "A shirts" and I sweat less..but when I do, nothing is there to stop it from getting to my dress shirt. I may even try going with nothing under my dress shirts now that summer is rolling around.

[galopede]

Might sound odd to you Americans, but here in Britain, I wear a vest ro tee shirt as an extra layer to stay warm in winter. Never wear one in the summer as it's too hot and sweaty.

By the way, over here, Stella Artois lager is called Wife Beater!

Gareor

[The Knize]

... he says, just before typing two and a half pages.


My thoughts on undershirts ... they are underwear, and "underwear shouldn't be seen." (Okay, if a very attractive young lady has some very skimpy thong panties poking above some very tight low-rise jeans, I'm okay with that ... but young uber-hotties get to play by their own set of rules that don't apply to us.)

Okay, if you've stopped daydreaming, I'll continue.

Almost any white dress shirt will allow a white undershirt to show through at the edges. That's ugly. T-shirts are okay, and the edges are halfway down the arm and I can't muster the effort to be bothered much. (Besides, if you keep your suit jacket on, no one sees.) But the straps of the 'A' shirt show through in the most unsightly and poorly located ways. Just don't do it.

(I never heard anyone say that wearing an undershirt was "upper class" or "lower class" &c ... maybe people say it or think it, but I've never encountered that and wouldn't think it.)

I would also think the T to be more practical than the A for those who wear an undershirt for sweat-control reasons. If you want a layer of undershirt between your sweaty body and your dress shirt (so that less sweat soaks into/through your shirt) ... it seems like you'd want to make sure the undershirt covered your armpits. No?

As for getting the undershirts to be less visible through dress shirts ... yes, I can see using undershirts that are closer to "skin tone" (whatever that might be) as a way of making them less noticeable, and also you need to look at the thickness/density of your shirting fabric.

I guess I would rather write than read. Pretty narcissisistic of me!

<(I never heard anyone say that wearing an undershirt was "upper class" or "lower class" &c ... maybe people say it or think it, but I've never encountered that and wouldn't think it.)>

I was surprised to see it so much on-line, but I guess I am shallow, or have a limited imagination and vocabulary, but I was not above thinking it! <g>

No doubt that a tee is better than an "A" is sweaty pits is the issue. Not why I wear an undershirt though!

As far as the density of shirt fabric, I pretty much decided that most shirt fabric, at least in white, just was not thick enough for me. Besides, I did not want every shirt I owned to be striped or some sort of powder blue herringbone. I can't imagine anyone wearing one of those white "single fold" poplin shirts without some kind of under shirt. I guess I would tend to agree a tee for one of those is better than an A shirt!

So no one has any thoughts about heather gray shirts being less visible? I just do not see that they are particularly. I would rather have a white undershirt bring up the intensity of a white shirt.

I never wear an undershirt to save money. With the hot weather we have, I like the extra layer to help keep me dry.

Since I'm used to it, I can't wear a dress shirt without it now. Plus, I'm in a pretty white collar industry and when I see a guy who isn't wearing an undershirt, it looks weird.

<when I see a guy who isn't wearing an undershirt, it looks weird.>

I think that is pretty much my take.

[global_dev]

Some would argue that having that show is much more proper than having a big tuft of chest hair showing, which would never be proper in a business context.

i wear no such undershirt with my shirts... my wife has made me remove them on almost every attempt to wear one... I currently actually own only 1 black "sleeveless" now, 0 white tee shirts, and a 3-4 of colored V necks of colors that wouldn't suit use as an undershirt.. I wear business suit attire everyday of the workweek except Friday.

In a business setting, my chest flair would never be an issue. A tie wraps everything up and even slightly loosened, my chest hair would not be overflowing the collar or collar button. It just doesn't reach that far north, but 1-2 buttons down and bam!... On a casual business attire day, or just a day with a button down or v-neck, i rock the flair as if it was my job... My wife is slightly amused my my non-embarrassment of it and all things considered many women comment on my confidence (and how it works for me) and surprisingly men do comment on it as if their opinion mattered... let's be on the same page though, we are not talking Saturday Night Fever flair.

I never wear an undershirt to save money. With the hot weather we have, I like the extra layer to help keep me dry.
Since I'm used to it, I can't wear a dress shirt without it now. Plus, I'm in a pretty white collar industry and when I see a guy who isn't wearing an undershirt, it looks weird.

it's one thing I learned while living in Africa and Russia is to wear the right fabrics for the climate and that layering is typically great for trapping heat .. yeah my math is off.. I was distracted by making sure my flair wasn't overflowing today's getup

[AUWboy]

I have been wearing A-shirts under my dress shirts for quite some time and do not feel self-conscious about it at all. Provided the armholes are not cut too deep, they do provide some underarm sweat protection. Sure, they do show under my dress shirt but so will a crew or v-neck. I think people would rather see the straps of my A-shirt than dark chest hair or nipples.

While I have not tried the heather gray A-shirts, I have heard that they are not as visible. Since it does not concern me that people can see my A-shirt through my dress shirt, I have never felt compelled to try the gray ones.

My advice to you is to wear what you are most comfortable in. The A-shirt is perfectly acceptable in a business setting and has been for decades.

[luvmysuper]

I wear a T shirt under every shirt except a T shirt.
Business, business casual, or casual.

When I have the top button of a dress shirt opened in business casual, people can see the top of the T shirt. Don't really care.
When I wear a Polo, people can see the top of the T shirt. Don't really care.

I don't like the feeling of the looser fitting outer shirt rubbing when I move, and the T shirt prevents that.
I don't wear A shirts and never really have. I don't care for the feel of the straps over the shoulder.

[Vickers]

I wear a regular t-shirt under just about every other shirt.

It's true that in so doing I deny the ladies my nipple profile and any hint of my substantial 70s chest hair, but it simply feels better to me...not so scratchy and voluminous.

[Haggises]

If it's cold I wear an undershirt under my business shirt. In summer I would never do such a thing. I also think it looks odd to see an undershirt clearly showing through an unbuttoned collar at work.
I'm British so coupled with some of the responses above.....Is this a USA vs ROW thing?

[closer]

I wear a T shirt under every shirt except a T shirt.
Business, business casual, or casual.

When I have the top button of a dress shirt opened in business casual, people can see the top of the T shirt. Don't really care.
When I wear a Polo, people can see the top of the T shirt. Don't really care.

I don't like the feeling of the looser fitting outer shirt rubbing when I move, and the T shirt prevents that.
I don't wear A shirts and never really have. I don't care for the feel of the straps over the shoulder.

This is what I do as well. I've switched to v-necks under dress shirts, but they still peek out if the top button is undone in a business casual setting. But, it is a lot better than wearing a crewneck in that situation.

[A3M0N]

I wear undershirts under polos and button downs to hide chest flair (awesome term, btw), but the sleeves are usually too long and stick out of the polo sleeves. I have one "muscle" undershirt (sleeveless), but can't seem to find any more and I'm not sure where my lone one came from. So I just cut the sleeves off a few of them for polo shirt wear :)

[smalltank]

Fruit of The Loom tank tops work best for me if im just relaxing at home

[intotheforge]

I always wear tee shirts under dress shirts. I've honestly never even tried an A-shirt. This is because of their unfortunate nickname. I've also never worried about the top of my crew neck tee showing in a business casual situation. I have considerable flair (like this word too ) which would prevent me from wearing anything other than a crew neck if I'm not wearing a tie. At home and other non-work related locations. I sport the flair and wear no undershirt.