I Don't Get It - Is Bowl Lathering Really Worth It?

[Renato1]

Okay - so I know what a good lather that comes out of a spray can looks like - I have Aramis, Nivea for Men, Paco Rabanne, Guerlain Vetiver, Azzarro Pour Homme, various Gillettes, Herrera for Men. Some are significantly richer than others, but all are sub-average on my face, as far as I am concerned.

And I know what a rich creamy, pasty lather looks like. I get it using a brush with Trumpers Sandalwood shaving cream, from Truefitt &Hill Luxury shaving soap in its wooden bowl (without heaps of swirling), and from rubbing an Erasmic or Palmolive shave stick all over my face and applying a brush to it. These creamy pasty lathers all work a wonder when shaving my face.

What I can not fathom is why I would put soap bits into a bowl, then mix up a huge frothy lather that resembles what comes out of a can, then apply it to my face - such that it works exactly like the lather that comes out of a can. The volume is obviously greater than the creamy pasty mix, so that a fair percentage of the lather is well away from the skin and not doing anything in particular, except waiting to get taken off in the shave.
It seems to me to be a waste of soap too.

I just don't get why people are so fond of bowl mixing.
If Trumpers, Taylors of Old Bond St and Truefitt& Hill put their current soaps' ingredients into spray cans, wouldn't the results be the same as bowl mixing their soaps?

Need I mention that I wasn't too thrilled at my results from bowl mixing.

I'd appreciate your thoughts, particularly from those who have tried both methods.

Cheers,
Renato

[Dusty1]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand canned cream has an alcohol base to help in propelling it from the can, and the alcohol dries out the face which is the enemy of "wet" shaving. That is why traditional creams are mixed with water by hand.

As far as bowl mixing, I'm assuming you face later and are refering to having your soap in a bowl which you mix up before applying to your face. If you mix too much, just load the brush less. You also have the freedom to add more water to make it thinner which you can't do from a can. I mix a bit from a shave mug containing my favorite soap and then use a separate bowl to whip up a later. I can get a better later going than on my face, but many prefer face lathering. Also some like to use the bowl to float in hot water to keep their later warm. You could always do that with your can. Hope this helps.

[Whilliam]

To me it is. I enjoy the ritual. And I enjoy adding various emollients and other ingredients to my lather to see what happens.

My latest is olive oil. It does not destroy my lather, and it leaves my face moist and soft when I'm through.

But that's just me. I'm sure others have far better reasons for using a bowl or scuttle.

[leonidas]

...how much olive oil do you add?


.........and those can foams have those nasty petroleum based propellants in them.... they can't be good for you or the environment...

[eth]

Whatever works for you.

I generally get irritation of some kind from face lathering. I'm not sure if it comes from rubbing concentrated product on my skin or brush burn, but either way it's unpleasant. This rarely happens when bowl lathering, and if it does it's an allergic reaction. The only exceptions that have worked are EJ sea buckthorn soap (decent) and Proraso white soap old formula (very well). I haven't tested, but my recent TFS Bergamotto Neroli dure soap would probably work as well, from looking at how it behaves when loading it. Products that positively does not work for face lathering on my face, that I know I am not allergic to, are Irisch Moos cream, Salter sublime citrus cream and TOBS Jermyn St. cream. Other products have also been tried with failure, but not 100% sure on allergies. I haven't gone scientific about this to find out, as I have no problems bowl lathering anyway.

[vitalMyth]

lather that comes out of a can "looks like" properly-formed lather made from a legitimate product because that's exactly what it's designed to do: look like a good lather. but that look does not actually make it any good. canned goo lathers are harsh on the skin, are astringent and irritating for most people, and do not provide the type of lubricity that is needed for a proper shave. the only thing a canned goo product does correctly is imitate the look of a good lather. if you face lather and get great results, then that's great. but for many people, and in particular when using many products such as hard soaps, it's very difficult to create a proper lather JUST right without using a bowl, which provides a lot more control over the water content and amount of work that goes into the lather building.

[Neognosis]

canned goo lathers are harsh on the skin, are astringent and irritating for most people and do not provide the type of lubricity that is needed for a proper shave. the only thing a canned goo product does correctly is imitate the look of a good lather.

That's simply not true, and one of the myths perpetuated on this forum. Millions of men shave every day with cream from a can with great results. Besides, witch hazel IS AN ASTRINGENT and is widely rubbed onto faces after a DE or straight shave by most anyway.

It's just not necessary to malign canned creams in order to justify enjoying using a traditional brush and soap/cream.

And you know what? I shaved for 17 years using either canned cream, or just whatever hand soap was on the vanity and a gillette "Mach whatever" razor with perfectly acceptable results and little to no irritation in 1/2 the time or less that it takes me to shave with a brush and DE.

I simply enjoy using the traditional tools more.

I just wanted to be honest about that.

I bet that there are SOME people who have negative reactions to canned cream or modern cartridge razors, but they aren't the bane of masculine existence everyone on this forum likes to make them out to be. Do you really think that millions of men worldwide can be hoodwinked because a tennis pro or baseball player says to use a cartridge razor?

[Renato1]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand canned cream has an alcohol base to help in propelling it from the can, and the alcohol dries out the face which is the enemy of "wet" shaving. That is why traditional creams are mixed with water by hand.

As far as bowl mixing, I'm assuming you face later and are refering to having your soap in a bowl which you mix up before applying to your face. If you mix too much, just load the brush less. You also have the freedom to add more water to make it thinner which you can't do from a can. I mix a bit from a shave mug containing my favorite soap and then use a separate bowl to whip up a later. I can get a better later going than on my face, but many prefer face lathering. Also some like to use the bowl to float in hot water to keep their later warm. You could always do that with your can. Hope this helps.

Thanks for your thoughts. I thought it was some kind of butane that propelled the lather out.
What I guess I'm saying is that light lather - of the type that would float on water in a bowl would be akin consistency wise to that from a can.
No doubt it would work, as millions of men use the stuff from cans without a problem. But is that optimal with respect to shaving, especially for people with touchy skin?
Regards,
Renato

[Renato1]

To me it is. I enjoy the ritual. And I enjoy adding various emollients and other ingredients to my lather to see what happens.

My latest is olive oil. It does not destroy my lather, and it leaves my face moist and soft when I'm through.

But that's just me. I'm sure others have far better reasons for using a bowl or scuttle.

Well, that sounds like fun.
I used to have some expertise in giving massages, where the most luxurious oil was almond oil, and slickest was grapeseed oil. Have you tried those?
Cheers,
Renato

[Renato1]

Whatever works for you.

I generally get irritation of some kind from face lathering. I'm not sure if it comes from rubbing concentrated product on my skin or brush burn, but either way it's unpleasant. This rarely happens when bowl lathering, and if it does it's an allergic reaction. The only exceptions that have worked are EJ sea buckthorn soap (decent) and Proraso white soap old formula (very well). I haven't tested, but my recent TFS Bergamotto Neroli dure soap would probably work as well, from looking at how it behaves when loading it. Products that positively does not work for face lathering on my face, that I know I am not allergic to, are Irisch Moos cream, Salter sublime citrus cream and TOBS Jermyn St. cream. Other products have also been tried with failure, but not 100% sure on allergies. I haven't gone scientific about this to find out, as I have no problems bowl lathering anyway.

That's a perspective I hadn't heard of before. My wife is very touchy about numerous creams on her skin, and gets very unhappy when affected, so I know where you are coming from. It's interesting how bowl lathering mitigates the problem for you.
Cheers,
Renato

[Renato1]

lather that comes out of a can "looks like" properly-formed lather made from a legitimate product because that's exactly what it's designed to do: look like a good lather. but that look does not actually make it any good. canned goo lathers are harsh on the skin, are astringent and irritating for most people, and do not provide the type of lubricity that is needed for a proper shave. the only thing a canned goo product does correctly is imitate the look of a good lather. if you face lather and get great results, then that's great. but for many people, and in particular when using many products such as hard soaps, it's very difficult to create a proper lather JUST right without using a bowl, which provides a lot more control over the water content and amount of work that goes into the lather building.

Thanks. Indeed, the canned stuff doesn't work for me - but numerous people don't have an issue with it.
My question is really about what is it that is "JUST right", the light stuff that I'm seeing on numerous pictures here that resembles the canned stuff, or the creamy pasty stuff - which doesn't require or want lots of bowl whipping up?

Curiously, I was looking at the Merkur pdf file about it's razors, and it has a picture of a guy really lathered up - with his girl playing with the lather. If he was rustic and shaving outside, a gust of wind would blow it all away. My lathers would never get blown away.
Regards,
Renato

[Artimid]

That's simply not true, and one of the myths perpetuated on this forum. Millions of men shave every day with cream from a can with great results. Besides, witch hazel IS AN ASTRINGENT and is widely rubbed onto faces after a DE or straight shave by most anyway.

It's just not necessary to malign canned creams in order to justify enjoying using a traditional brush and soap/cream.

And you know what? I shaved for 17 years using either canned cream, or just whatever hand soap was on the vanity and a gillette "Mach whatever" razor with perfectly acceptable results and little to no irritation in 1/2 the time or less that it takes me to shave with a brush and DE.

I simply enjoy using the traditional tools more.

I just wanted to be honest about that.

I bet that there are SOME people who have negative reactions to canned cream or modern cartridge razors, but they aren't the bane of masculine existence everyone on this forum likes to make them out to be. Do you really think that millions of men worldwide can be hoodwinked because a tennis pro or baseball player says to use a cartridge razor?

Yes? My main issue with the canned stuff was simply that it jammed more often, and gunked up more often. May have been the razors, but three blades and gel/foam just always gunked up badly. I haven't tried canned since I got into this so I don't know if the results are the same with the DE (not sure I would want to try a straight with that stuff, reapply another handful every pass?). Of course, you are correct. Roughly 3 billion people a year use the canned stuff, and it doesn't kill them, so we can't be too dismissive of it.

Of course, I personally haven't talk to too many people who haven't had any irritation with the mach 3, most just push through it to get the deed done and go about their day. That of course is a personal statistic, and therefore irrelevant, so I can give you that as well. :)

[Oblique Human]

Just because your results were bad doesn't mean everyone else fails to whip up the perfect bowl.

[takeshi]

I Don't Get It - Is Bowl Lathering Really Worth It?

Worth is always highly subjective, regardless of topic. Everything here is YMMV. If we were all identical we'd all bowl lather or we would all not. That's clearly not the case. You have to determine what's worth it to you and what isn't using first hand experience.

What I can not fathom is why I would put soap bits into a bowl, then mix up a huge frothy lather that resembles what comes out of a can, then apply it to my face - such that it works exactly like the lather that comes out of a can.

My bowl lather was never identical to lather from a can.

Need I mention that I wasn't too thrilled at my results from bowl mixing.

I'd appreciate your thoughts, particularly from those who have tried both methods.

Again, our thoughts don't matter. Yours do. What were your results? What were you unhappy with? What were you expecting? How did you build your lather? How about photos? Give us something to work with to give you feedback on your bowl lathering. Don't assume that your results are the same as those of every bowl latherer out there (i.e. don't attempt to extrapolate a trend based on a single data point).

[global_dev]

i like to use a small cup/bowl to incorporate a little water and area into my lather, only for a couple seconds. i think it helps the lather build process when face lathering as i can better control (see) how much water i add and a bit of air use.

[nosedog]

Do you really think that millions of men worldwide can be hoodwinked because a tennis pro or baseball player says to use a cartridge razor?

Yes I do. I agree with the gist of your comment, but I must say I do think the marketing for modern shave products is very effective. My experience of shaving with them always involved irritation, but I never thought outside the square because the marketing of the products and my lack of knowledge of alternatives (and their low availability) led me to just shrug and think "Oh well, that's the way it is." Just what they wanted me to think.

Now I'm willing to blame my years of irritation on poor technique, not poor products. If I went back to that stuff now I'm sure I'd get good results thanks to my technique, developed with traditional products.

But that doesn't mean all products are equal. Freshly made lather from soap/cream and water is much better quality than anything that can be stored in a can. Convenience usually comes at a cost in quality as well as price, and shaving is no exception.

[excel]

I really like building my own lather. It also feels like it\'s much better quality too.

[Neognosis]

I agree, and I'll say that modern advertising is very effective across the spectrum of most products.

Freshly made lather from soap/cream and water is much better quality than anything that can be stored in a can.

Maybe, maybe not.

Why do you think this?

[ladykate]

I recently purchased a couple of scuttles (if one is good, then three are better, right?) and I find myself face lathering and using the scuttle as a brush warmer... which it does very well. In any case, when I 'whip up' a bowl of lather, I make it very thick - too much air certainly does cause it to sit on top of your whiskers. Also, too much light fluffy lather is hard to apply (my experience). I like to keep it creamy and thick...

Face lathering - for me - conserves soap. For some of the pricier soaps, this is a good thing. It is also much quicker to get to the right consistency (for me). My most recent kick is to use Arko and rub it directly on my face and build up a nice thick lather with the brush. So... I guess I keep going back to face lathering even when I have no real good reason other than it feels right to me. I can make a bowl of thick creamy lather - I just don't want to. It isn't part of the ritual right now. Of course, tomorrow I may change my mind. ;-}

re: canned goo is inappropriately maligned

I agree. If you want a nice shave, try putting a squirt of Gillette Gel into the top of a warm brush (a la KMF) and face lather with it (or even build it up in the scuttle). Works a treat. Gillette Gel is in my rotation - although since I managed to corner the entire Midwest supply of Arko and have decided to use some of it up - my soap rotation has stalled.

re: Use the bowl to add a scent to your lather

Absolutely. You can still do this with face lathering - whichever way you do it, it has a great effect.

[mhdena]

Face lathering is King