On Paper and Oil

[JPDyson]

Well I had written up a longer and more indulgently verbose version of this diatribe, but as I'm sure many of us have discovered, the secret to brevity is having to type it all again.

I think I've just about had it with paper filters. It boils down to this - no matter what I do, coffee tastes better when it's never passed through paper. I've tried soak-then-filter methods, paper filters in my vac-pot, plenty of pour-overs with all kinds of paper filters, and the cups I get from cloth pour-overs, Eva Solo, Vac-Pot with metal or cloth filters, or French Press just trump them all. They're more balanced, sweeter, rounder, more satisfying - better in every measurable way. In all fairness, that's not very objective -- but to me, the cups I've brewed through paper are absolutely, without a doubt, missing something. I don't mean to imply it's not well known what they're missing - it's oil. Paper holds it back, metal and cloth let it through. What that does for the specific coffee you're brewing seems to vary. Honestly, I've brewed some where the difference was quite subtle, and others where the coffee seemed to become an entirely different animal.

I hear the objections - some people favor a "clean" cup. Fine, but realize that's sometimes code for an intentionally lacking cup of coffee. And for what it's worth, there are very clean brewing methods that still favor oils (cloth filters, namely). I'd challenge you to try it. It's not hard to do with nearly any setup - there are metal baskets for auto-drip, cloth and metal filters for pour-over, DISK for aeropress - and see if you're picking up what I'm putting down. Coffee just tastes better when you let the oils into the cup.

Of course, some folks are convinced it's also less healthy this way, but for me the evidence is thin.

[Commander Quan]

My vintage Cory vac pot makes coffee that tastes equal to if not better than in the french press, but also makes a cup that is significantly cleaner than the FP as well, so it is possible to have a flavorful clean cup of coffee

[SiBurning]

What that does for the specific coffee you're brewing seems to vary.

I think this deserves highlighting, and it's a great reason to experiment with different methods for different coffees and roastings, going well beyond paper or not.

[JPDyson]

My vintage Cory vac pot makes coffee that tastes equal to if not better than in the french press, but also makes a cup that is significantly cleaner than the FP as well, so it is possible to have a flavorful clean cup of coffee

Glass rod?

I think this deserves highlighting, and it's a great reason to experiment with different methods for different coffees and roastings, going well beyond paper or not.

YES! There's quite a variety of brew methods out there, and for good reason (most of the time).

[Commander Quan]

Yes it's the cory rod

[StillShaving]

I agree with you in general, though I sometimes want a paper filtered brew for reasons I can't explain. I have not done much comparing of different filters beyond bleached vs un-bleached, but its clear that different ones have different thickness or flow rates which must effect the taste in subtle ways. Its an item that is under appreciated for its impact on the brew, and often purchased solely on price. (At least that is how I have treated them in the past). Which is probably a barrier for creating new designs, as seems like it would not be that difficult to design and manufacture ones containing small holes or characteristics that let some very fine coffee particles through. In order to mimic cloth or screen filters, but get the convenience of easy cleanup.

[JPDyson]

seems like it would not be that difficult to design and manufacture ones containing small holes or characteristics that let some very fine coffee particles through. In order to mimic cloth or screen filters, but get the convenience of easy cleanup.

The only problem I perceive with this is that paper, wet paper especially, is fragile. I think the holes would be prone to rip. I could be wrong (and happy to be!) as I'd love the idea of a paper filter that actually permits more oils to pass through.

[ouch]

If some people say that coffee tastes best when passed through civets, I have no problem with passing it through paper.

[Doc4]

There is some great coffee that comes from Civets.

[Sullybob]

I have been thinking about some of the same things Josh. I love my Chemex but I really don't like the flavor the filters impart to my coffee. I've been using a Melita pour over and filters in the Chemex and I've been thinking about trying the gold cone filter that came with my coffee maker.

[StillShaving]

I think this is why people are willing to spend significant money on espresso machines, that this method produces a wider range of desirable flavors. Though its unclear how much of that is due to oils or finer particles or different chemistry making into the cup.

Case in point, on Sunday I roasted some Uganda Bugisu to Full City. I am enjoying the coffee, but it was not as flowery/acidic as I wanted.

1. Sunday had an Americano brewed with the Presso, after giving the roast zero rest time.
2. Tuesday was an Aeropress brew, made with a reused paper filter (make one cup, rinsed off filter, repeated brew)
3. Wednesday had a couple of Hario pourovers, both with the Hario filter (white), and with generic Melitta style filter (white) folded into V-shaped cone

Best cup was #1 from the Presso. (Caveat is that I tend to be lazy and inconsistent when using the Aeropress, as it is more forgiving, so I often use it when needing to multitask).

I should repeat this experiment with a better coffee and include a coffee sock and cloth filter in the Aeropress and all the other brew methods I have within reach. But I expect the Presso/Espresso would win out. I needed to get a percolator and learn its idiosyncrasies, as there have been enough postings to make me believe if one can fine tune the extraction it can be as nearly as good...or if you miss it will be the worst coffee you've ever tasted.

[professorchaos]

By and large, I too like less filtered coffees - more oil, more flavor. Sometimes, however, a clean cup is very enjoyable.

[Jasonian]

Josh, if you think that paper filtration is a compromise, you should think about degree of extraction. Degree of extraction is, in my opinion, a MUCH bigger deal than what kind of filter you're using when it comes to how much is "missing" in your cup.

While my favorite brew method involves no filter whatsoever (cupping), I think it might be a bit extreme to dismiss all paper filtration as a category. I recognize that what you're saying is intended to be personal preference, I detect a dogmatic approach in your wording.

I prefer the Green Mountain "Melitta" style filters to the Melitta ones, despite the fact that the newer Melitta filters have "holes" to allow oils through. They are thinner. I tend to prefer bleached to the unbleached filters in general.

While there is more to any given coffee than its aromatics, there are times when all that I really want to experience are its aromatics. In those situations, nothing will do the job quite like a paper filter unless you wish to under-extract the coffee which is, in my opinion, a much bigger crime against the coffee than using paper as a filtering medium for a fully extracted cup.

This is just my $.02, of course, and you know that it's "right" as long as you enjoy it.. but we should be careful with what we write off and why.

[JPDyson]

YES! Jason, finally. Been waiting for you to weigh in.

I don't disagree with you when it comes to degree of extraction, and while I lack a refractometer, I'm aiming for standard extractions. Even with the AeroPress (the most consistently over-dosed methods I encounter are for AP). Still, I think the same brew parameters with the only change being cloth instead of paper yields a dramatic difference in the kinds of flavors you get in the cup.

I'm trying to hold two things in tension: One, I think it's categorically true that paper filters hold things back. Two: I think there's room for preference.

Haven't tried the Green Mountains, but I will. Always open, and paper is dead simple.

While there is more to any given coffee than its aromatics, there are times when all that I really want to experience are its aromatics. In those situations, nothing will do the job quite like a paper filter unless you wish to under-extract the coffee which is, in my opinion, a much bigger crime against the coffee than using paper as a filtering medium for a fully extracted cup.

This is just my $.02, of course, and you know that it's "right" as long as you enjoy it.. but we should be careful with what we write off and why.

I can't fault that, but it strikes me as fundamentally similar to the 3rd wave brewing you denounce. I don't see the distinction between one kind of isolated extraction and another.

[Jasonian]

YES! Jason, finally. Been waiting for you to weigh in.

I don't disagree with you when it comes to degree of extraction, and while I lack a refractometer, I'm aiming for standard extractions. Even with the AeroPress (the most consistently over-dosed methods I encounter are for AP). Still, I think the same brew parameters with the only change being cloth instead of paper yields a dramatic difference in the kinds of flavors you get in the cup.

I'm trying to hold two things in tension: One, I think it's categorically true that paper filters hold things back. Two: I think there's room for preference.

Haven't tried the Green Mountains, but I will. Always open, and paper is dead simple.



I can't fault that, but it strikes me as fundamentally similar to the 3rd wave brewing you denounce. I don't see the distinction between one kind of isolated extraction and another.

Oil isn't flavor. Under-extracting a coffee and leaving behind good aromatics and tastes that were developed by the blood sweat and tears of farmers is disrespectful. Leaving out the oil that comes with ALL coffee isn't. I hope this helps to clarify my position and the motives behind it. It all boils down to gratitude, love, and respect. The way I see it, it's not my coffee. I am just a steward of someone else's work. If I destroy or invalidate their work, I have done a disservice to the entire chain. The oil isn't inherently part of said work since it is present in all coffee, regardless of rejection rate (defects) or cupping score.

[JPDyson]

I see your point, Jason. We could have another discussion about whether the producers actually give two shakes about what we do with their coffee. However, I wouldn't be quite as dismissive about the oils as you seem to be. Like I said, I've experimented with changing the single variable (filter) and have been shocked at the difference in taste. Perhaps you could argue the oil itself isn't flavor, but it's certainly affecting the perception of it.

[StillShaving]

Regarding this paper filter discussion, how much of the effect is due to small coffee particles (fines) as compared to oils making their way into the cup? I don't know the answer but sometimes I see small fines settling out of my Americano and sometimes after drinking one I feel like I have had a snack instead of only a cup of coffee. The effect is very subtle and it may be more psychological than physiological but its as if the cup of coffee is shifting from being a beverage to being a food.

[Jasonian]

I see your point, Jason. We could have another discussion about whether the producers actually give two shakes about what we do with their coffee. However, I wouldn't be quite as dismissive about the oils as you seem to be. Like I said, I've experimented with changing the single variable (filter) and have been shocked at the difference in taste. Perhaps you could argue the oil itself isn't flavor, but it's certainly affecting the perception of it.

As StillShaving mentioned.. are you sure that oil is the substance in question? I notice a distinct paper flavor whenever I haven't brewed with a paper filter in awhile. so much so, that it interferes with the coffee.

For MOST brew methods in which either paper or something else can be interchanged, I've also noticed that this change tends to change more than just the filtration, but also the extraction dynamics. The result is, literally, a different cup of coffee.. even when made from the same bean. I'm not trying to argue that this is the case, but I think that to blame the whole thing on "no oil" is to dismiss a slew of potential causes.

My first suspect, however, is the paper taste. It's less prevalent in bleached filters, in my experience, but it is still quite obvious.

[JPDyson]

I need to get around to seriously cupping my filters, but I can taste the difference between a melitta white, brown, and bamboo filter and the resulting cup (as well as a chemex, and even white vs brown there). By far, the least interruptive is the melitta white. In any case, I think it's a fair point that the resulting cup might be different for more than just oils.

But that's still a result of using a paper filter, no?

[Jasonian]

I need to get around to seriously cupping my filters, but I can taste the difference between a melitta white, brown, and bamboo filter and the resulting cup (as well as a chemex, and even white vs brown there). By far, the least interruptive is the melitta white. In any case, I think it's a fair point that the resulting cup might be different for more than just oils.

But that's still a result of using a paper filter, no?

Indeed it is, but it doesn't necessarily mean than anything is "missing". A fully extracted coffee isn't "missing" anything. The extraction profile may not be what you expected or prefer, and the imparted taste to the cup may decrease your ability to perceive aromatics and/or dissolved solids, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there.

The title of this thread is "On Paper and Oil". I was doing my part as the devil's advocate in picking apart your premise in as little time as possible. (my degree is in philosophy, after all)