Setting a Bevel Coti Style

[Earcutter]

Ok so if you’ll accept a few assumptions here:

A. That I have read this - http://www.coticule.be/unicot.html
B. That I just spent the better part of three quarters of an hour on the blade I am about to describe

Can any of you help me?

Many if not all here state they can set a bevel on a Coti and I believe them/you; I just can’t seem to master it. I bought a little, what the seller stated was a 3/8, but it’s the smallest 3/8 I have ever owned lol off the bay. Moreover, he stated it was “shave ready : ), so I asked the vendor if he honed with or without tape. With tape he stated. Anyway, the blade was dull... dull, dull, dull, lol. As in it wouldn’t even tug on my arm hairs. So to the Coti it went.

I started with a thick paste (no tape) – worked it down – Washed off the stone then more paste again – worked it down etc, etc. It’ll flirt with the idea of cutting hair but alas she’s still “hair shy.” Normally I would move to a different stone at this point and get back to my Coti but; well if it can be done, I want to do it!

If a blade comes to me new or relatively honed, my Coti rocks; but bay razors... Have at it gents! What am I doing wrong? Or what is it that you do right?

Thanks gents.

[rickboone1]

The problem is inside that box your coticule sets too low that you cannot make contact with the stone with your razor....



I never could set a bevel on a coticule. The Chosera 1k is supposed to be great and fast at this, yet I still had troubles until I back off pressure a little. I just used lighter pressure and things got better for me.

[Gamma]

You're not doing anything wrong. You're just not 'there' yet. When a blade is honed on tape, and you decide to hone a new bevel without tape, you're talking about removing a lot of metal. Coticules are slower than say a Chosera 1k. So - you're work is not yet done. You will probably have to do several more 1/2 dulcots to get rid of what is now a micro bevel left over from the previous owner.
When I say 1/2 dulicots, what I mean is, and this is how I would do it; Basically - I start with a decent slurry and progress with a few dilutions and then start over again with new slurry. Kind of like a dulicot pyramid thing... Others will have their favorite recipe, and they'll probably chime in soon.
You'll get there.. takes time though.

[Earcutter]

The problem is inside that box your coticule sets too low that you cannot make contact with the stone with your razor....



I never could set a bevel on a coticule. The Chosera 1k is supposed to be great and fast at this, yet I still had troubles until I back off pressure a little. I just used lighter pressure and things got better for me.

I knew it had something to do with that box!! LOL. I'll try the lighter pressure.

You're not doing anything wrong. You're just not 'there' yet. When a blade is honed on tape, and you decide to hone a new bevel without tape, you're talking about removing a lot of metal. Coticules are slower than say a Chosera 1k. So - you're work is not yet done. You will probably have to do several more 1/2 dulcots to get rid of what is now a micro bevel left over from the previous owner.
When I say 1/2 dulicots, what I mean is, and this is how I would do it; Basically - I start with a decent slurry and progress with a few dilutions and then start over again with new slurry. Kind of like a dulicot pyramid thing... Others will have their favorite recipe, and they'll probably chime in soon.
You'll get there.. takes time though.

Ok - well I'll pump out another half hour now and see how that works.

Thanks gents.

[smalltank]

DMT1200 (bevel set) and coti (polish/re sharpen at same time) are all I use start to finish..then 40/50 laps on linen/leather strops...good enough for my face ;-)

[Legion]

I was actually going to say more pressure.

More pressure and half strokes get the job done in no time for me. But not all stones are the same, of course. I wouldn't even bother trying on my glass hard La Verte. But my two LPB and my Dressante are fast stones, and they are fine for bevel setting. Keep practising. You'll get there.

How quickly does the slurry darken?

[Earcutter]

Well Gents! Throw on your smoking jackets... it's time for a cigar!

It's almost been another two hours so all said and done, about 2.5hrs! Setting a bevel on that bad boy via the Coti was work! But yeah ok, it can be done lol. But the work!

I know we all say you have to know your Coti; I saw another side of her tonight. After getting flustered trying to "polish" metal off the blade and noting I was getting nowhere fast and an uneven bevel to boot, I went hard. I handled the blade as though I was trying to take a slice out of my coti and she got the message. It seemingly took nothing to get a bevel and edge worthy of polishing as soon as I started to apply a great deal of pressure forward on the edge.

Once I got the "edge" or bevel, it became rudimentary. It just took me about an hour to realize that if I try to slice my Coti, it'll give me the bevel I need. I don't know if all the messing around beforehand helped... but more importantly, tonight I discovered how truly versatile this little stone of mine is.

Thanks for your patients with me on the matter gents.

[Kentos]

The problem is that it was originally honed on tape. Ink the bevel with a sharpie pen and a few light laps. You will likely find out where you are, and how far you need to yet go. I would guess you haven't got the bevel to touch the hone yet.

[Earcutter]

I was actually going to say more pressure.

More pressure and half strokes get the job done in no time for me. But not all stones are the same, of course. I wouldn't even bother trying on my glass hard La Verte. But my two LPB and my Dressante are fast stones, and they are fine for bevel setting. Keep practising. You'll get there.

How quickly does the slurry darken?

I was typing as you posted - yup more pressure seemed to be the key.

BTW the slurry darkened quickly at first and then slowly - very slowly even when putting on pressure - why is that?

[smalltank]

I was typing as you posted - yup more pressure seemed to be the key.

BTW the slurry darkened quickly at first and then slowly - very slowly even when putting on pressure - why is that?

no 2 coti's are alike..to each coti its own..my combo works best with light/moderate slurry..some heavier slurry...the metal removed makes the slurry turn "grey" actually..thats when you add a drop of water and mix in on the stone and keep going til clear..still go more laps ;-0)

[Earcutter]

no 2 coti's are alike..to each coti its own..my combo works best with light/moderate slurry..some heavier slurry...the metal removed makes the slurry turn "grey" actually..thats when you add a drop of water and mix in on the stone and keep going til clear..still go more laps ;-0)

Thanks smalltank , I get what you are saying but I don't understand why at first nothing but grey, then when i went hard very little grey. U would think pushing down like I did would take away more metal no?

Ah! Who knows lol - I just feel like a king for "getting" it lol.

[smalltank]

Thanks smalltank , I get what you are saying but I don't understand why at first nothing but grey, then when i went hard very little grey. U would think pushing down like I did would take away more metal no?

Ah! Who knows lol - I just feel like a king for "getting" it lol.

yea thats what I used to think..til "weight of the razor" works perfectly...its bevel setting that firm pressure is needed til it can easily cut armhair....sounds like you add too much water or not enough slurry..slurry should start grey..it should slowly turn grey within 10 back n forth strokes..then add a drop of water

[Krodor]

Congrats! Way to go!

[Earcutter]

Congrats! Way to go!

Thanks man!! I even shaved with the thing today! I tell you - I like my blades small but a 2/8 is just... well it's small lol.

Anyway, I think the blade could use a little more work, but it was ok. It worked.

[Drybonz]

I even shaved with the thing today! I tell you - I like my blades small but a 2/8 is just... well it's small lol.

Good job... sometimes it takes a really long time, but it sounds like you got the hang of it. I think you might find a little larger blade, 4/8 or 5/8, might be a little easier to work with too.

[Doc226]

Yep it can be done, but I prefer to speed things up with a DMT 1200 then use the coti-finish on oil if you want the max out of it

[Raithskar]

I have a La Dress, and a Grise. I have found that if I want to bevel set on the coti I go with my la Dress every time. Slurry starts to gray after about 10 halfstrokes. Only thing I have used personally that is faster is a La Petite Blanche. Paul (Easttexasman) brought his over to my house the other night and the slurry was black by the time I finished the bevel set. That is one fast stone.

I tried a bevel set on my Grise, and felt like i would be working 'till the rapture to get it done lol.

My Dress does great and if I want my super smooth edge i do a full dilucot on the Grise afterwards.

Glad you made it there David! It does take some extra work, but yes it can be done. I use the same pressure that I do during dilucot. Same pressure as when you are erasing pencil from paper. I use that for the whole process until my finishing x strokes. Then I use super light to no pressure.

Jon

[Gamma]

I think - and I may be wrong but this is my interpretation - is that the darkening of the slurry isn't reliant on just the amount of metal that is removed, but it's also got something to do with how the metal reacts/oxidizes in the slurry. I had an similar question once, when I was trying to figure out my LGJ. Bart commented in that post and he referenced a video where the slurry on a stone he was honing on only turned light grey even though the honing process was working just fine.
One stroke on a LBP I used to own would yield very dark slurry, and a similar stroke on my Dressante would bring up a medium grey tone. Both stones seemed to be just about as 'fast' in the sense that they seemed to remove the same amount of metal though. Maybe - one was 'faster' but that sort/level of scientific experimentation eludes me. I do think there is a chemical reaction that occurs once the metal is in the slurry.
If my assumption is correct. then your slurry turning darker and then lighter might have to do with unknown variable present in both the stone and the blade's steel I suppose.

[danjared]

Some slurries seem more opaque than others. This will affect how the addition of steel into the solution will change the color of the slurry. Consider how a drop of espresso looks in a cup of water versus a cup of skim milk versus a cup of condensed milk.

As far as whether coticule slurry chemically reacts with steel any more than ordinary tap water, I am uncertain. But, if it reacted quickly enough to be visible in the time span of seconds, I would be concerned about the effects of the slurry on the non-abraded steel we so meticulously try to sharpen.

[Legion]

Yeah, I'm not buying the stone reacting with the steel, at least to an extent that it is visible to the eye in that amount of time. In science, the simple explanation is usually the right one. The white slurry goes darker because there is more dark stuff (metal) in it. Assuming the sample slurries are the same colour and opacity, the one that goes darker one has more metal in it. Ergo, it is a faster stone.