Chris Reeve and other Similar Knives

[OldSchoolYoungin]

I'm a bit of a blade connoisseur. For the past year or so, I've been looking for what I'd consider the perfect EDC. Many a blade has come and gone through my hands (and pocket) and I've been duly impressed with many of them, especially the Spyderco Endura 4. To me, it's practically ideal: excellent steel (VG10); great length; wonderful versatility and even the advantage of becoming useful in a *knock on wood* self-defense situation. Some runners-up would be the Delica, Tenacious and Benchmade 10700 Nagara. Yes, I'm a Spyderco fan.

Anyways, after handling several Chris Reeve Sebenzas, both small and large, I can't help but appreciate them for what they are. They're practically perfect in every way. I have a few friends that own them and they claim they're worth every bit of $400. My only problem is that I can get a full-custom folder for that price. $400 for something that I might lose? I'd pay $200 easily; they really are that good. But $400? For those that own them, are they REALLY worth the money? Mind you, I'll probably be going for the small. Or maybe the large. Or maybe both.

Opinions from people that actually own and use them often?

tl;dr version: Please enable and convince me to buy a $400 pocket knife so that I'll shut up about it on online forums.

[petr]

I've used a large sebenza and have a green beret I picked up from a bud who needed cash. Yes, I think the sebenzas are worth it. It's the day in day out opening and closing -- and if there is ever a problem you send it back for a tune up. If in doubt though, Tom Mayo is of course your man. That is, if you can get on his list.

My other favorite knife maker in the 400 range with impeccable quality is Pete Sidney Moon - I have four of his and use them hard. I love how thin, but tough they are. He is a real gent also. http://www.moonknives.com/

[Legion]

I think CR knives look great. But personally I feel that a pocket knife is a tool to be used, and I would always have an issue with carrying and using a $400 knife. I've done it before, bought really nice EDC items, and then been too protective of them, so they just sit in a draw at home.

YMMV, but think to yourself, would you keep your CR knife in your pocket with change or keys? Would you use it to cut tough items if necessary? Would you lone it to your buddy so he can do who knows what? If the answer is yes, then buy one. If no, then you will always be scared to carry it, and you should just get the spyderco.

Or one of these...

http://www.mcustaknives.com/CATALOG.html

[DS/B MCS]

I've carried a small Line Drive graphic Sebenza as part of my EDC since 1999. It's been back to the CRK spa I believe 3 times for a refresh. It comes back looking like new. If you are a member of the knife forums, you can pick up a used Sebenza and save yourself a few bucks. You will be hard pressed to find a $400 custom folder that is built to the tolerances of a Sebenza. Most custom folders are going to run you $550+ and many of them aren't as well put together as the Sebenza.
Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw, Zero Tolerance, Strider, etc make excellent knives, so you may want to look at some of their offerings too. There is a reason Chris Reeve Knives win awards at the Blade Show every year...they are that damn good.

[honed]

They are awesome, no doubt. Extremely well made.
Still, the blade is the nowadays fairly common S30v, the grind is spot on, but nothing spectacular.

Given that you can get a sprint run Spyderco Military or Para-Military in the far superior S90v steel for half the price or a Benchmade Barrage in M390 for less then $300 it's not worth it to me at least.

Legion also makes some very good remarks.

YYMV

[MrMurphy]

I carry Spydercos for daily use (a Lil' Temperance which has been around the world and to war with me, though if i replaced it, i'd get a Chinook III or a Mini-Manix).

I used to work with 3 guys who all had Sebenzas. If you have the $ and do not routinely lose small objects......yes, they're worth it.

I don't throw that kind of money down unless it's a fixed blade personally, but I can appreciate them.

[OldSchoolYoungin]

After a lot of thought and coming pretty close to buying one, I decided against it. I have bad luck with losing small, expensive items One of the reasons I don't carry a nice phone. Thanks for all your suggestions. I don't think it was meant to be.

Picked up a Buck Vantage Pro and have a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 on backorder, instead

[OldSchoolYoungin]

And now I see that my second favorite online knife vendor has the sprint-run Earth Brown G-10 Paramilitary 2 on backorder. Both my Endura 4 and Delica are in Earth Brown and it's by far my favorite Spydie color.

DO WANT

Decisions, decisions...

[hig789]

My two EDC's are a Spyderco Delica 4 and a Benchmade D2 Nitrous Stryker. I like the Benchmade better because of the open assist but the Spyderco takes a much better edge IMO. I have had my eye on a para military too. They are sweet.

[kbuzbee]

My two go to folders are these. Been using each of the since they arrived.



Either does whatever I ask of it.

The Gayle Bradley is CPM-M4 steel and feels a bit more stout.

The Caly 3.5 is in Aogami Super Blue and is quite a bit lighter.

Both take wicked sharp edges very easily.

Ken

[OldSchoolYoungin]

Man, that Caly 3.5 is SWEET! I might start looking at them after I get my Para2. Spyderco is always the first place I look when I want another knife. I've owned knives from every other major manufacturer and Spyderco just gets it right, especially in the small to medium EDC role. Plus I like the way they do business and Sal Glesser and friends just seem like decent people. Yes, I honestly care about little stuff like that if I'm going to give a company my money.

[kbuzbee]

Man, that Caly 3.5 is SWEET! I might start looking at them after I get my Para2.

It really is. I was hesitant as the Caly 3 never quite made it for me. The added size of the 3.5 helped way more than I expected it to. The Super Blue steel is terrific, but they are long gone and very hard to find now. They are releasing a clad ZDP CF model soon though, if that's an interest. It's basically a larger version of the Caly 3 I own. Doubt I'll get one as I just love the SB.

I've owned knives from every other major manufacturer and Spyderco just gets it right, especially in the small to medium EDC role.

Very true, and they offer something that it's just about anyone's needs.

Plus I like the way they do business and Sal Glesser and friends just seem like decent people. Yes, I honestly care about little stuff like that if I'm going to give a company my money.

As do I. Sal's a great guy and really cares about "how" he does business.

Ken

[VANCE723]

i own a crk sebbie and very happy with it...there is a reason he wins quality manufacturer almost every year



that being said

falkniven has a tk3 folder that has awesome fit & finish and is more in the $200 range. i carry it more than my sebenza



the blade is laminated 3g steel

[honed]

My two go to folders are these. Been using each of the since they arrived.



Either does whatever I ask of it.

The Gayle Bradley is CPM-M4 steel and feels a bit more stout.

The Caly 3.5 is in Aogami Super Blue and is quite a bit lighter.

Both take wicked sharp edges very easily.

Ken

That is two awesome knives!
I was eyeing the Aogami sprint run, but never got around to it. Very nice!

[kbuzbee]

That is two awesome knives!

Thanks!

I was eyeing the Aogami sprint run, but never got around to it. Very nice!

If you ever see one Among other things, I found out today, it makes a great asparagus knife!

ken

[OldSchoolYoungin]

Just in case you can't tell, I love Spyderco. Just to play devil's advocate, though, here are a few things that Sal Glesser himself said about Chris Reeve and his knives. Just to reiterate, I really do think he's a stand-up guy and appreciate him not bashing other fellow knifemakers.

Here we go:

Well, I cannot speak for Chris Reeve Knives, but I will offer an opinion.

I've known Chris and Ann for many years. We worked together when Chris was in South Africa.

A CRK knife is not a custom knife, nor is it a production knife. They are in a class by themselves. They've taken many years to develop their reputation.

Each piece is custom made by skilled custom makers. CRK tolerances and standards are the highest I've seen in processes like surface grinding and heat treat. There is a limit to their production capacity.

Chris is pretty anal on quality. "Quality is time. = Time is money". He pays his craftsmen a fair wage, and he charges a fair margin, he gives the world a product like no other. Chris and Ann work hard and they make a good living. "Enormous profits" is an inside joke that Chris and I laugh about. Frankly, I think they'd feel guilty if they made too much money.

The "Market" will determine if his business strategies work, regardless of what they are. If they don't work, adjustments are made....that's how businesses survive.

BTW, the flip side of a "bargain driven" market is manufacturers are forced to import product (export jobs) from China to compete in the need for the "lower price". More complications.

sal

In the end, it's all about trust. CRK took many years to build and maintain their repuation. Built with consistent focus. Even those trying to make a "cheaper" version must "leave out processes" or "soften their tolerance", or they will cost as much.

In addition to that quote, he said, paraphrased: "If we made knives to the tolerances of Chris Reeve, they'd probably cost about as much".

High dollar knives are high dollar because they cost more to make. It might be materials (Titanium, unubtanium, etc.), it might be tolerances (Chris' has lotsa zeros after the decimal before hitting numbers), it might be labor (carving, engraving, etc.).

Sometmes those differences are difficult if not impossible for even the trained eye to detenct, generally impossible for a new student.

Just because you can't see the difference, doesn't mean it isn't there, sometimes it just means you can't see it.

sal

Again, even though I've put off buying a Sebenza or even an Mnandi (how I'd love an Mnandi!), just giving you a glimpse of what the owner of one of the most successful knife manufacturers in the world has to say about them. In order to truly justify any argument you must understand both sides, so just offering some insight in that regard.

[kbuzbee]

Just in case you can't tell, I love Spyderco. Just to play devil's advocate, though, here are a few things that Sal Glesser himself said about Chris Reeve and his knives. Just to reiterate, I really do think he's a stand-up guy and appreciate him not bashing other fellow knifemakers

I agree with you (and honestly, I don't think there's any Devil's Advocacy in your post). I think Sal goes way beyond "not bashing" where CRK is concerned. I would call that high praise indeed.

It all comes down to where you want to spend your money and how much a particular feature is worth to you.

For me, Spyderco tolerances are "good enough" I'll readily concede CRK's tolerances are tighter. Given Sal's comments, I'd say that is virtually guaranteed. But I haven't found I need better tolerances than Sal delivers.

CRK's steels are clearly "good enough" for any normal use. But I just LOVE trying new steels. Without Sal, I'd never have tried S90V, 20CP, M4, SB etc. Sure, you can find them in $500-$1000 customs but not in $130 production knives.

Then there are features I consider "must haves" at this point like opening holes and wire clips.

I find the opening hole to be the best opener on the market. Several orders of magnitude beyond a thumb stud which itself goes way beyond a nail nick, the standard for most of my life.

Sal doesn't put a wire on every model but those that do appeal to me more. Those that don't, if I like the knife enough, can usually be modded one way or another (as I did with that Bradley).


Of course, I could do that to a CRK as well, but I'm much more hesitant to mod a $400 knife than a $130 knife.

So I spend my money where I place my values. I can try three different steels on Spydercos for the cost of a Sebbie.

Would I love to own a CRK? Sure. Maybe I'd find the quality to be so far beyond it would become my primary criteria (which was kinda your point initially) In fact, on some level, it kinda scares me that I might Maybe, in my case, ignorance is bliss? Regardless, I'm very happy with all my Spydies.

Cheers,

Ken

[OldSchoolYoungin]

Some thoughts on the Paramilitary 2:

I decided to outright buy a black G10 Para 2 at the same time I pre-ordered by brown G10, which is expected in June. I've owned my black G10 for two days now and can already see it becoming a favorite. Fit and finish are outstanding considering it's just a production blade. Absolutely zero blade play upon arrival, and like Ken eluded to, the tolerances are absolutely acceptable for any knife enthusiast that's not spoiled on CRK

FWIW, going by pictures, I expected the Para 2 to be bigger than my Endura. It's just barely so, but that doesn't detract from anything; just looked like a bigger knife at first. It's wider, yes, but they're similar size when compared side by side. Tremendous slicer. I have wide hands and the ergonomics are outstanding. You'd really have to hold one to see what I mean; they're built like a freakin' tank while being modest in weight. Awesome, beautiful blade. Practically bank vault lock-up. You'd be hard-pressed to find much wrong with them.

Thanks, Spyderco. You did it again.

[kbuzbee]

Some thoughts on the Paramilitary 2:

Yep, the PM & PM2 are great knives. Here's my grey:



But overall I still like my D2 a little better (also reclipped with a wire)

Congrats on yours!

Ken

[OldSchoolYoungin]

LOL! Nice clip. I've actually never tried the Spydie wire clip before; might need to give that a go.

On an off-word, I met a fellow Spyderco/knife nut at work today. One of the engineers I work with noticed my Para 2 and complimented me on my taste in knives. The next hour or so were pretty much wasted talking about knives This guy buys practically every Spyderco sprint-run model he can afford.

Keep the Spydies coming! Yea, I just hijacked my own thread. Actually, it was hijacked a long time ago...