No Respect

[Topgumby]

Jackie Wilson was buried in an unmarked grave that didn't get a headstone until four years after his death.

Any others in this category? IIRC, Frankie Lymon ended up in an unmarked grave, and even after a fan raised the cash to buy one and have it inscribe, because of squabbling among his widows (seems Lymon didn't believe in divorce before remarriage) it hasn't been placed.

Here's a Lymon video.

Twelve years after this was recorded, Lymon was dead of a heroin overdose.

In both cases, I think it's safe to say the musicians are respected by fans today, but at the time they shuffled off this mortal coil...not so much.

[Shave A Buck]

Actors, singers, celebs in general are in it for the money and fame. Something drives them to keep going till they make it after all the rejection. They are not national heroes who did something for the greater good of mankind I would point out, most were well compensated. The singers of the 50's were not however and many did not get royalties and a part of the action in what they put out as records and songs. I remember a 20/ 20 episode regarding Earl "Speedo" Carroll who was found to be a school custodian at a NYC school . Many died poor or no better off despite their popularity.

In the end it is up to them to manage their affairs as we do ours.

[auk1124]

Bobby Driscoll, child actor for Disney (Song of the South, Treasure Island, voice of Peter Pan), became a homeless drug addict after coming of age and losing the child-actor roles. His corpse was discovered in an abandoned building in New York in the mid 60's, and he was buried in Potter's Field. He died in his early thirties.

[TonyH]

Civilization is built on culture and the arts. It's a shame when those that give so much are neglected in death.

[The Nid Hog]

Civilization is built on culture and the arts. It's a shame when those that give so much are neglected in death.

Too true. And maybe the very thing that drives people to accomplish what they do leaves them poorly equipped to deal with what they achieve.

[DC_MPA]

Fred Wynn aka Herman Munster and the southern judge in My Cousin Vinny and the neighbor in Pett Semetery, he too is buried in an unmarked grave. They just know the general area where he rests. Definitely sad.

[Topgumby]

Too true. And maybe the very thing that drives people to accomplish what they do leaves them poorly equipped to deal with what they achieve.

That's what's so fascinating to me about this. Sam Cooke was a brilliant musician, and he gets shot in a cheap hotel. I've always wondered what he would have done if he'd lived longer. I think there is a self destructive side to great creativity.

[malocchio]

jackie wilson had a massive stroke before he died,leaving him almost vegetative.Broke and no family willing to take him,a lifelong fan,whom he had never met,took him home and nursed him until his death...bud abbott was found broke and disheveled in a run down los angeles flop house in the early 70's and was put into a celebrity home by frank sinatra,who payed for buds funeral when he died of cancer...

[Cannata]

Mozart died broke. He was one of the greatest musical geniouses of all time. He was working on his Reqium when he died at age 35. He managed to compose 41 symphonies in that short time, along with numerous other works that included operas, concertos. and chamber music.

[TonyH]

That's what's so fascinating to me about this. Sam Cooke was a brilliant musician, and he gets shot in a cheap hotel. I've always wondered what he would have done if he'd lived longer. I think there is a self destructive side to great creativity.

Can you imagine the direction pop music would have taken, had Marvin Gaye survived through the 80s?

[Shave A Buck]

Fred Gwynn from the Munsters is in an unmarked grave but may be for personal reasons.

My full time job is a police sgt in North Jersey, Whitney Houston is buried about a quater mile from the town where I work. The surrounding towns were asked to do security on her grave, 3 cops 24 hours a day for a month because they were fearful people would steal her body or maybe only her grave marker. Now there is just a private security guard on her grave. Gwynn seems to have a family according to the Wiki page on him.

Funny story...Whitney who by some accounts was broke when she died cost us here in Jersey a big chunk of change. Newark is about 10 miles from my job, they spent 200K in police overtime during the star studded funeral. SWAT teams on roofs, cops all over the place. Then they asked us to assist in the procession, most towns said no thanks, who's going to pay for the extra manpower. The town of Westfield where she is buried was on the hook for a lot of money with extra cops during the burial. I say they are no better than we are, no more above the law. If kevin Costner wants to come to Newark he can do it as we do, at your own risk or bring his own muscle. My personal thoughts are we make too much out of the cult of personality.

[TonyH]

I'm not sure everyone understands the overall concept of the thread.

Why participate if you're only here to grumble and grouse?

[Vickers]

One of my all-time heroes is a guy named Mississippi John Hurt. He was a blues player who recorded some stuff in the 1920s then disappeared for about 40 years until some guys found him in Avalon, MS in the early 60s and convinced him to do some recording for the Library of Congress, and to do some folk festivals. He died just a few years after his rediscovery.

Unlike a lot of the 20s and 30s blues guys, he was a sweet guy with a gentle voice and demeanor. His songs still contained all of the elements of early "country" blues like gambling and whiskey and women and guns and cards, but he always seemed to make it sound a lot nicer than it was (contrast this with Charley Patton, Robert Johnson, and others from this era).

Anyway, a few years ago I was doing some work near where he is buried, and decided to visit. When I finally found it I was shocked. The tombstone was made out of poured concrete with crude letters that had been pressed in with some kind of form, and the outline of the burial area was lined with landscape timber, the kind you buy at Lowe's for $1.98.

I'm not much of a crybaby, but this broke my heart.

If you have any interest whatsoever in old blues music, please pick up a copy of his album called "Avalon Blues: Complete 1928 OKeh Recordings."

[Shave A Buck]

Sorry if my post seems that way but what was the point of the original one, about these stars dying. So what can we do about it.They are people like us who need to plan and take care of their affairs.

Lets also remember before we praise them too much that much of what they do is truly created by someone else who you will never know their names. Who wrote these songs, who arranged them,, they are creative talents as well. Perhaps even more than a voice who puts them to vinyal or disc. Through out time many stars have been troubled people, Judy Garland comes to mind.

[The Nid Hog]

Sorry if my post seems that way but what was the point of the original one, about these stars dying. So what can we do about it.They are people like us who need to plan and take care of their affairs.

I don't think that TopGumby's original post wants you to do anything. He just observed that some creative people might gain great popularity during their lifetime, but it fades so quickly after their death that they are soon forgotten. After that, they might be rediscovered by people who once again appreciate what they did, but that doesn't account for the swift drop off. The other point is that many creative people are self destructive. Honestly, I don't think that there is anything to do about it. If many of these guys were nice, law abiding citizens who worked hard, saved their pennies and were nice to everybody, they wouldn't have been the artists that they were. You can be a nice, fiscally responsible guy (or gal) and be a great artist. You could also be a jerk who still manages his money and lives out his days in the lap of luxury. That happens too. But lots of artists fit the profile that TopGumby described. It is what it is.

[Topgumby]

Yeah, I think the Nid has spoken well for me. It's fascinating when you contrast the joyful noise of "At the Hop" with how the lead singer ended up. Obviously, it's a lot easier to sympathize with earlier artists who didn't get the big payout than it is with more recent train-wrecks who had it all and blew it, or snorted it, or whatever.

I think Joe has a valid point, too. We all struggle, achieve, fail and live our lives in anonymity, for the most part. I think there is this yearning for fame and fortune that is part of human nature, but when you see how it turns out for some that get it, you have to ask if we are better off with our idle wishes unrealized.

The Sinatra story with Bud Abbott is interesting. It makes me like Sinatra a little more.

My kids were just laughing their heads off listening to the "Who's on First" routine. Maybe that's the only kind of monument that counts.