Mystic Water versus Martin de Candre ... yes, you heard that right!

[JCinPA]

I would like to stir some folks up and encourage them to compare Mystic Water to Martin de Candre.

Yes, you heard me right. I recently tried MdC for the first time and have come to the conclusion that—similar to my thread in Razor Blades about Feathers—it is truly wonderful stuff, one of the best products around, but NOT in a category by itself by any stretch of the imagination. Please understand, I am not knocking MdC, it is terrific stuff. And the economic argument does not interest me, I spend a lot of money customizing guns others do not think need it, but I’m happy doing it. If it floats your boat and you want to buy it, buy it.

With that in mind, I also recently tried Mystic Water Shaving Soap and was blown away by it! These two trials were so close to each other it simply was natural that I would think about this pairing. I will not keep you in suspense, I’ll give you conclusion up front.

Mystic Water = Martin de Candre

It was more or less a dead heat between the two. Of course YMMV, blah, blah, blah.

One thing I will not do is give number grades to the qualities of this soap, I am not able to tease out small differences with that much precision, nor do I think many others are. Also, I think when we have a preference we tend to use too much hyperbole in expressing it. There may, in fact, be huge differences between MdC and Williams, I will grant you that. I seriously doubt there are huge differences between these two products, and many others in the very top tier of lather products. Of course, one man’s huge is another man’s slight difference, but that’s how I feel about it. So, without further ado …

Procedure: Two identical kitchen bowls for lathering, one Semogue 2000 and one Omega #10098, both boar brushes, in similar stages of breakin. If anything the Semogue is slightly better than the Omega, and I used the Semogue with the Mdc. I did not think about it, but lest anyone feel the brush favored one soap or the other, I used my ‘slightly better’ brush with the MdC. After whipping up gorgeous, dense, yogurty lather with each, I proceeded to face lather a little bit MdC on the right side of my face, MW on the left, three passes plus touchups. Blade was a NOS Schick Plus Platinum on shave #2 in a DE89 head mounted on a Bob’s RazorWorks XXL handle. After shave treatment was Thayer’s WH followed by Pinaud Classic Vanilla.

Scent: Not Rated. Don’t be disappointed here, this is the ultimate YMMV and the scents are wildly different. The MW was the excellent Lilly of the Valley, the MdC was, well, MdC, there is only one scent (or unscented). I prefer the MW, but that is neither here nor there for anyone else. Some love the MdC scent, I’m kinda ‘meh’ with it, but it’s not bad. I am in love with the MW Lilly of the Valley scent, others can’t stand flowery scents like that. You figure it out. No winner, only difference, both considered to be outstanding scents by many.

Latherability: Tied, absolutely. Now that I know how to lather Mystic Water properly (believe me, that knowledge is hard-won in my case), I got equally dense, long-lasting, protective lather from both in about the same amount of time.

Lather Efficacy: Very slight edge to the Mystic Water. Both are equally dense, but the MW is ever so slightly slicker, IMO. I stopper the sink and rinse with the sink water between passes, where obviously the soaps were mixed. Because of that my face gets progressively slicker during the shave. From the first pass, I felt the MW was slicker and that impression became more pronounced as the shave progressed. Before the MdC fans scream BLASPHEMY, remember both are superlative lathers, both are very slick, both give a tremendous shave. Remember my comments about slight differences and hyperbole? I don’t think the difference is meaningful in any practical sense, but for my money, the MW had the slight hedge here. Razor glide, comfort and shave results were pretty much identical.


After-shave skin feel: Tied, IMO. I will admit to not being the best judge of this, however. I do not have problem skin and I get good results with many products. I notice outstanding results with some, and these two are in that category, among others. But I cannot tell any difference. I would invite someone with more sensitive skin who is more in tune with this characteristic to post their thoughts, but to me this was a dead heat. I would be tempted to give the edge to the MW, but I fear that may just be cognitive bias introduced by my reading of the two ingredient lists. I really cannot tell any difference, my skin feels fantastic on both sides.


Well, there you have it! One man’s impression of two fantastic soaps. I like the Martin de Candre, I cannot say anything bad about it at all. Clearly it is a world-class shaving soap in very rarified atmosphere. It is not the uber-soap some would have you, IMO, but it is incredibly good, and I can find no reason to question the cost—especially since the product weight is larger and it lasts so long. I don’t know if they are inconsequential, but the price per shave difference is certainly less consequential than the product price tag would have you believe. It is a fantastic product, use it and be happy!

On the other hand …. The Mystic Water soap, for me, was every bit the equal of the MdC, and I believe it to be ever so slightly slicker and I much prefer the scent. MW Lilly of the Valley is now one of my staples. I am grateful to Bkfist for the generous sample of the MdC, but I won’t be buying any, I am quite certain of that.

PIF

Because that sample was a gift, I’d like to PIF it to the first person who responds who fits these conditions:

You must be familiar with and enthusiastic about Mystic Water soap, be getting great lathers out of it-and have decided it will always be in your rotational lineup—AND, you must never have tried MdC before. Do not claim this if you are still learning to lather MW or are not an avid fan of it. I want someone who appreciates MW first so we don’t get someone having any issues with it, like I did at the start. And you should not have tried MdC. I don’t want any bias introduced there. If you fit the bill, post here, if you are the first to post claiming it after you hit <ENTER>, PM me your address. I’ll send you the rest of my sample.

I’d love to hear others’ impressions of these two soaps in a head-to-head comparison.

[cvac]

Very interesting results JC. I shaved with my MdC yesterday. Even though I typically prefer long/heavy loading, I loaded it up about half the time I normally do, which for me would be about 45 seconds. I was also in a hurry, so I didn't bother to shake/squeeze all the water out of my brush. No issues at all. MdC just lathers more easily than any other soap I've tried (though the Irisch Moos stick is close) and lathers without thinking about it or using a special technique. It is also a great deal more forgiving in terms of the amount of water it can handle compared to MW. Likewise, I've never heard *anyone* complain about MdC breaking down in a warm scuttle. The recipes are also very different. Overall, I think it's a bit misleading to compare the two, and isn't really fair to either product. I say that even though, as you know, I'm no far of MW.

Also, keep in that I don't mindlessly praise MdC like a lot of people on here. I can get the same great shave from a couple products that cost a bit less to acquire, so I don't necessarily think it is the be-all end-all of shaving soaps. BUT it is one my personal favorites.

[7 O Menthol]

If only my MW samples had arrived a few days earlier, I'd feel comfortable asking to join in the PIF / fun.
Alas, I will have to enjoy others' results from afar. Hoping to be as enthusiastic about the MW in a few days...

[bandg]

I would tend to agree, but you could also put TFS BN & TV and Mike's in the mix, imho. All great soaps in my experience and can come down to personal preferences, as all perform for me at a very high level. Regards, Bradley

[seizure]

Blasphemer! Heretic! Just kidding.

I recently came into some MdC myself (grumble grumble lost order, never shipped, found alternative grumble grumble) and I've come to roughly the same conclusion. In terms of latherability, I feel MW is a BIT more difficult to get to the sweet spot, but not by much. MdC seems much more water tolerant than MW - I can just haphazardly slop water into my brush/bowl and it lathers fine. With MW I at least have to pay attention to how much is going in.

I personally enjoy the scent of MdC, but I love the options with MW.

Great review, generous PIF (don't count me in), and thanks.

[k2clones29]

John,

You know all about my enthusiasm for MW and success with it, and no, I have never tried MdC. In fact, I have received many responses for my disdain of french manufacturing, the basis of which is the reason why I won't pay 4 times more money for a soap that is not likely to be 4 times better than something like MW. Also, I have not tried Lilly of the Valley (just Orange Vanilla, Bay Rum, Marrakesh, and Coconut). I would love to give it a try and would happily post my experience with that particular scent. I will send you my address and hope I am the first!

[JCinPA]

K2clones29 is it!

[JCinPA]

@cvac

I will agree that I, too, have to pay more attention to lathering the MW. But now that I have it down, I can lather it just as easily, just as fast, and just as consistently.

Is it more finicky than MdC? I believe so. Will it work in a hot scuttle? Nor for me so far. But I have no issues comparing these two head-to-head. Under the conditions of the test, I consider them equals, and I think it is a perfectly fair comparison. That said, if one likes using a hot scuttle, that knocks MW right out, IMO.

As for other soaps, I was not trying to create an exhaustive comparison. I just have been playing with these two and it occurred to me they are close to equals and I thought I'd give it a go! This is what it is, an unscientific comparison between two soaps, which happens around here all the time.

[TheVez2]

Interesting comparison. I'll give my sample of MdC a go tomorrow to see if I agree.

[JCinPA]

Please do! You may come down on the other side, but I am curious to see if you feel, as I do, that they are very, very close to equals. I think anyone trying to advocate huge differences would be reacting to strong personal biases, but this is an awfully subjective exercise.

In any event, I thoroughly enjoy both of these soaps! It's fun playing with the very best stuff, isn't it?

[MoJoe]

High praise and bold claim. I'll have to test that out for myself. I have MdC in my rotation and some Mystic Water Coconut, Lime & Verbena on it's way. Hopefully, it will arrive before I go on vacation next week and I get to compare the two. Still, I'm looking forward to seeing what Mystic Water is all about given all of the recent reviews.

[bkfist]

I don't think your assessment of skin condition after the shave is off... I also feel the MW leaves my face the tiniest bit better afterwards than MdC does also.

There are really only 3 soaps or creams that I've ever tried where I could consistently go without any kind of moisturizer/aftershave and not have "tight" skin after the shave. Those three are MW, MdC & Institut Karite. There are others that leave my face fully "acceptable" w/o aftershave on an average day, but those three are the only three that I can tell little or no difference whether or not I use a moisturizing aftershave or not.

I do feel there is a definite difference in the "feel" & look of the lather between MW & MdC, but the resulting shaves are both exceedingly close and comfortable. After having done most of my shaves, (both straights & DE) for the past month or more with MW soap, I think I have a slight preference for MdC with a straight, and a slight preference for MW with a DE razor. I think part of the reason for me preferring MdC for straight shaves is that I can get MdC wetter and therefore slicker for regular straights and the MdC holds the water a bit better for the slightly longer shave times. I still feel the higher glycerin content of MW interferes with the "soapy slickness" I look for in a straight shave, especially when using the Feather straight. The little "junction line" where the Feather's replacable blade meets with the holder seems to catch lather, and with MW it "amplifies" the "thicker feeling slickness - a higher viscosity slickness feeling" that the glycerin imparts to MW. With a straight I'm not really looking for cushioning, just pure slickness, and I tend to start out with a thinner lather than if I'm going for a DE shave.

I agree with you on the scent issue. MdC scent is not bad in any way, but pretty meh compared to my favorite MW scent... I've got both scented and unscented MdC and only the unscented will get replaced if/when the time comes (probably 10 to 15 years from now at my current rate of consumption.)

Both products are among my favorites, along with RazoRock Artisan, Institut Karite, MWF, Osma (I can not put my finger on why I happen to like Osma soap so much.) Cade, Provence Sante, Pre de Provence and a few others that obviously aren't that top in my mind at the moment.

[bkfist]

High praise and bold claim. I'll have to test that out for myself. I have MdC in my rotation and some Mystic Water Coconut, Lime & Verbena on it's way. Hopefully, it will arrive before I go on vacation next week and I get to compare the two. Still, I'm looking forward to seeing what Mystic Water is all about given all of the recent reviews.

The Lime/Verbena/Coconut is my #2 all-time favorite scent, only exceeded (for me) by the scent of L'Occitane Cade... But the MW performs better... (Not that Cade performance is bad, just not as good as MW - my opinion, of course.)

[Go Forth]

...TFS BN & TV...

Abbreviations make it hard to understand. What do these mean?

[MoJoe]

The Lime/Verbena/Coconut is my #2 all-time favorite scent, only exceeded (for me) by the scent of L'Occitane Cade... But the MW performs better... (Not that Cade performance is bad, just not as good as MW - my opinion, of course.)

Funny you should say that. I have a hand soap that has coconut/lime/verbena scent and have wished that someone would make a shave soap with that scent. When I saw that Mystic Water did I didn't hesitate to pull the trigger. Thank you for validating my instinct.

[5savages]

Abbreviations make it hard to understand. What do these mean?

I had to look it up, but it's Tcheon Fung Sing Bergamotto Neroli and Tabacco Verde and

[Bengal Tiger]

Your enthusiasm has really encouraged me to try it. I live where I can get Mystic Water locally. (Be jealous!) I think I'll go see Michelle tomorrow at Riverdale after work and see what samples she has. Can't wait to see what these soaps smell like. I'm thinking of trying orange vanilla, coconut lime verbena, and lily of the valley.

[james7604]

Interesting post. MdC is my favourite soap. It just works, that's not to say other don't work as well because they do but putting everything together (ease of use, lather produced, post shave feeling, scent) MdC is my top pick.

I've not tried MW, maybe one day I'll get around to it but I've a lot of other soaps stacked up.

I note you say you had a bit of trouble lathering MW to begin with. Did you have trouble with MdC as well? One of the big plus points for MdC in my opinion is how easy it is to lather. Wouldn't that give it an edge in your head to head?

[JCinPA]

I note you say you had a bit of trouble lathering MW to begin with. Did you have trouble with MdC as well? One of the big plus points for MdC in my opinion is how easy it is to lather. Wouldn't that give it an edge in your head to head?

The answer is, no, that does not give it an edge as far as the shave goes without a scuttle. I replied to cvac similarly above.

I can lather MW now as easily and consistently as MdC, and it performs equally, IMO. I can see no difference, now that I have dialed in the MW lathering process, they are the same.

Certainly, to your point, MdC provides a more foolproof lather. If you can't lather MdC (like if you can't lather TOBS creams, Proraso cream, RazoRock soap) you may as well give it up and go back to using Gillette Foamy in the can.

But I rate these soaps equally, although I cannot get MW to work in a hot scuttle. MdC you can. I'm not trying to say MW is better than MdC at all. I am saying you should try it. It's phenomenal stuff, and if you don't need a hot scuttle you will likely think it is as good as or at least very close to MdC in shave quality. That's all.

[Marco]

Lovely thread indeed, John! Any comparison lather shots, my friend?