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Those of you who take a multi, what do you use?

Let's face it, friends; genetics is THE KEY. You owe your longevity to your ancestors. You can certainly work at improving your odds, and likely will do so- but if your father and grandfather both died of heart attacks in their 40s- that's not a good sign of living to 80. There is, in fact, too much info out there about too many supplements. I wonder how much of it is the placebo effect and how much of it is the supplement. One day you read that coffee is bad, the next that it improves "a" and "b." The next that it increases cancer of the "c." And round and round the wheel goes- where it stops- well- it don't stop! I like to think that taking a multi and other supplements help me- but mayhaps this IS just a placebo effect. I don't think that all drug companies are evil and have doctors paid off and in their back pockets. I don't think all supplement companies are God's gift to humanity and their only reason for being is magnanimity.

Bottom line is you pays your money and takes your chances. But, boy, there sure is a whole lotta money that can be paid and a whole lotta chances that you can take. I guess the old axiom to "look before you leap" applies here. Good luck to us all, may we not simply thin only our wallets in our quest for health!
 
Let's face it, friends; genetics is THE KEY. You owe your longevity to your ancestors. You can certainly work at improving your odds, and likely will do so- but if your father and grandfather both died of heart attacks in their 40s- that's not a good sign of living to 80. There is, in fact, too much info out there about too many supplements. I wonder how much of it is the placebo effect and how much of it is the supplement. One day you read that coffee is bad, the next that it improves "a" and "b." The next that it increases cancer of the "c." And round and round the wheel goes- where it stops- well- it don't stop! I like to think that taking a multi and other supplements help me- but mayhaps this IS just a placebo effect. I don't think that all drug companies are evil and have doctors paid off and in their back pockets. I don't think all supplement companies are God's gift to humanity and their only reason for being is magnanimity.

Bottom line is you pays your money and takes your chances. But, boy, there sure is a whole lotta money that can be paid and a whole lotta chances that you can take. I guess the old axiom to "look before you leap" applies here. Good luck to us all, may we not simply thin only our wallets in our quest for health!

You should read The Zone Diet, by Dr. Sears. He does a nice job of addressing family history and genetics and the role it plays in our own individual situations.

Very much agreed on the "look before you leap", a wise policy. What are your supplements?

I never did go all the way with mine... I don't remember all the brands, but most of them are organic, the rest, all natural, I take a daily multi, fish oils, co-Q 10, calcium-magnesium, vitamin E, green & yellow vegetable powder, raw fiber, and a probiotic.
 
My great great great uncle John Shell live to be somewhere between 128 and 132.

Sorry, I don't believe you. Any evidence? Any documentation of any sort? This age would put him in the record books.

The only reason we don’t live past 60 without meds is our own life choices.

Only recently are we reaching the point where our lifestyle choices are the limiting factor in our life expectancy. This is because of modern technology and modern medicine. Previously, the limiting factor was malnutrition and disease.
 
We're having a friendly conversation here, not positing the next global health fad.

Excuse me? I maintain that you might be positing the next global health fad. The supplement industry is going global with a capital G.

As for you accusing me of not being very brotherly. In fact the opposite is the case. I am watching out for my brother, by making sure that his exposure to potential bs is minimized. Why is asking for a citation or supporting evidence when claims are made considered to be hostile?

Ok, I apologize for the term, "goggly gok".

...There's an ocean of peer reviewed work on the subject of supplementation, supplement forms, and bioavailability. The abstracts are readily available to those who seek them.

Please help me find it. Show me some peer reviewed literature that shows why Centrum is a poor choice of multivitamin compared to another multi.

Anyone join me in getting this thread back on topic?

The topic of this thread is "What do you use?" but I don't think the thread is simply filled with listings, instead it seems to be "What do you use and WHY?"

I'm trying to address the why part. Are you interested in getting the thread back to that topic?
 

I posted this in another thread but it fits here, so :

I don't take a multi vitamin. I eat a very clean diet. Pretty much if there is an ingredient label I don't eat it. No packaged foods, no sugar (corn sugar) or anything containing it, ( I even make my own ketchup) haven't had fast food or even soda in so many years I can't even remember. I eat a lot of Veggies and fruit, fish, chicken etc.

So basically I try to get whatever vitamins I need from my food along with antioxidants. I do take extra Vitamin D3 because that is hard to get from food. Some extra fish oil (actually I was taking up to 3 grams per day) and Co Q 10. At times I take extra Magnesium also. Minerals are lacking in modern food supplies.

But I don't believe in the multi vitamin thing. It may be a more harm than good thing if you were really getting what they claim is in there but I don't believe the label anyway.

But that's just me :laugh:

It isn't hard to eat right. It just takes "re-learning." Sort of like shaving! :wink2:
 
Sorry, I don't believe you. Any evidence? Any documentation of any sort? This age would put him in the record books.



Only recently are we reaching the point where our lifestyle choices are the limiting factor in our life expectancy. This is because of modern technology and modern medicine. Previously, the limiting factor was malnutrition and disease.

Lol...well, folks born on a farm in the early 1800s often times didn't get much documentation to go along with it. Like I said, newspaper clipping with a whole 1/2 page article about him and his family, pictures and all. Truth doesn't require believers, it just is.

And you are entitled to believe whatever you like about anything I've said. You are what we call a drinker of the kool-aid. Like I said, hit the library, it's free. Do some research (I can tell you haven't), and then PM me and let me know what books you read and what you've learned. Also, don't forget to pull a few of the sources that are reputable and read those too. We're off topic again.
 

I posted this in another thread but it fits here, so :

I don't take a multi vitamin. I eat a very clean diet. Pretty much if there is an ingredient label I don't eat it. No packaged foods, no sugar (corn sugar) or anything containing it, ( I even make my own ketchup) haven't had fast food or even soda in so many years I can't even remember. I eat a lot of Veggies and fruit, fish, chicken etc.

So basically I try to get whatever vitamins I need from my food along with antioxidants. I do take extra Vitamin D3 because that is hard to get from food. Some extra fish oil (actually I was taking up to 3 grams per day) and Co Q 10. At times I take extra Magnesium also. Minerals are lacking in modern food supplies.

But I don't believe in the multi vitamin thing. It may be a more harm than good thing if you were really getting what they claim is in there but I don't believe the label anyway.

But that's just me :laugh:

It isn't hard to eat right. It just takes "re-learning." Sort of like shaving! :wink2:


Amen Brother!

I'm pretty sure you get your D from sun exposure, limited exposure, if you want it naturally. Also helps to only use a rag or sponge to wash with when you shower, as the detergents in soap wash off the D, but for some that's a little extreme. If you full body sun exposure on a daily basis (I can't speak for tanning beds efficacy) you should get plenty...
 
My wife disagrees with me vehemently, but I say too much of anything is a bad thing. If nothing else, your kidneys have to work to filter all the excess out of your blood. If you pee and it looks like Gatorade filling the bowl, your kidneys are in hard overdrive. It can't be any better than overdoing anything else. But the wife feels better about taking it vs. not taking it, and I see the rationale on her side of the table. If you take goldenseal and zinc when you feel a cold coming on, lot of times it goes away before it becomes anything (for me at least). The supplements have their use and purpose.
 
Amen Brother!

I'm pretty sure you get your D from sun exposure, limited exposure, if you want it naturally. Also helps to only use a rag or sponge to wash with when you shower, as the detergents in soap wash off the D, but for some that's a little extreme. If you full body sun exposure on a daily basis (I can't speak for tanning beds efficacy) you should get plenty...

I live in the northeast so the sun isn't at it's fullest year round (as the earth moves farther away fall and winter) which effects VIT D. So I supplement more in Winter.
 
And here I'm on the opposite end of the country from you, living the dream. It's easy to forget those above the 40th parallel don't get the same warm weather I do.
 
And here I'm on the opposite end of the country from you, living the dream. It's easy to forget those above the 40th parallel don't get the same warm weather I do.


That's why I go on a cruise to the Carribean every 6 months!

On a related note,(to the thread) RE: Supps. I try not to get too crazy about some of this even though in this day and age it isn't easy as we seem to fear everything. But many supplements aren't regulated for one thing. And the other is that quite often these companies are taking a popular theme and running with it. Like food packaging including words like "healthy Blend," Omega 3 added," "Extra antioxidants" etc. Added Omega 3? Where did it go in the first place? Ahh that's right. It was removed so the food will last through shipping and trucking to its destination without going rancid. Then add some preservatives to boot.

You can't take whatever it is in broccoli that is good for you and then make a pill out of it. That doesn't work the same as eating the whole broccoli. That's how these nutrients work. They work together with the rest of whatever they came from. You can't separate them.

I think we are more prone to getting sick because we are so worried about getting sick. In other words, we protect ourselves so much we begin to not grow resistant to what we are trying not to get. Always sanitizing and taking pills etc. then we go and eat a frozen "health" food and pop it in the microwave. Yea but I took a vitamin!! :001_rolle


I supplement very little mostly things that may be removed from foods like Fish oil. I try to eat pastured chicken and eggs and if I can't then at least organic. I eat red meat once per week and it's grass fed (I go right to the farm and get it) Bison. But when I have to eat the commercial garbage chicken (or even organic) I supplement more fish oil because the animals aren't getting it due to being grain fed. I supplement minerals like magnesium because our veggie supply is very depleted in minerals these days and Co Q 10 because I take a statin (family history). But multi? I don't believe the hype.

Eat real food man! And eat less of it :wink2:

Tommy
 
You can't take whatever it is in broccoli that is good for you and then make a pill out of it. That doesn't work the same as eating the whole broccoli. That's how these nutrients work. They work together with the rest of whatever they came from. You can't separate them.
It may be difficult to do well, but I believe it can be done, if not perfectly.
If all those sailors who suffered from scurvy in olden days had vitamin C pills, I'm pretty sure they'd have been better off.

If I was still eating processed food, I'd be popping vitamin pills like there's no tomorrow.
As it is, there's no widely accepted definition of what a balanced diet is, so I take them occasionally. Let's say they are part of my "varied diet."
 
Word.

Agreed, a lot of foods rich in a particular vitamin can do a world of good for you. But isolate the vitamin or mineral or whatever complex unto itself, rule out the "nature factor" and you find it loses potency, or loses all effectiveness altogether, or in some cases becomes toxic in supplement form and is actually banned from use. I think B17, one of the Bs anyway, is an example of that, found in apricot seeds. Raw apricot seeds are great for someone battling cancer, the vitamin in the seed that helps to create a hostile environment for cancer cells within your body, but when isolated and supplemented as a standalone, can actually kill you in fairly small doses.

That's why I go on a cruise to the Carribean every 6 months!

On a related note,(to the thread) RE: Supps. I try not to get too crazy about some of this even though in this day and age it isn't easy as we seem to fear everything. But many supplements aren't regulated for one thing. And the other is that quite often these companies are taking a popular theme and running with it. Like food packaging including words like "healthy Blend," Omega 3 added," "Extra antioxidants" etc. Added Omega 3? Where did it go in the first place? Ahh that's right. It was removed so the food will last through shipping and trucking to its destination without going rancid. Then add some preservatives to boot.

You can't take whatever it is in broccoli that is good for you and then make a pill out of it. That doesn't work the same as eating the whole broccoli. That's how these nutrients work. They work together with the rest of whatever they came from. You can't separate them.

I think we are more prone to getting sick because we are so worried about getting sick. In other words, we protect ourselves so much we begin to not grow resistant to what we are trying not to get. Always sanitizing and taking pills etc. then we go and eat a frozen "health" food and pop it in the microwave. Yea but I took a vitamin!! :001_rolle


I supplement very little mostly things that may be removed from foods like Fish oil. I try to eat pastured chicken and eggs and if I can't then at least organic. I eat red meat once per week and it's grass fed (I go right to the farm and get it) Bison. But when I have to eat the commercial garbage chicken (or even organic) I supplement more fish oil because the animals aren't getting it due to being grain fed. I supplement minerals like magnesium because our veggie supply is very depleted in minerals these days and Co Q 10 because I take a statin (family history). But multi? I don't believe the hype.

Eat real food man! And eat less of it :wink2:

Tommy
 
As it is, there's no widely accepted definition of what a balanced diet is...

A balanced diet varies depending on who you're speaking to; this is true.
However, I don't think it's rocket science. I know this is such common knowledge by now it's almost cliche but.
Shop the outer rim of the supermarket only. There is nothing at all that any one needs in the aisles. That is all frankenfood and not meant for human consumption.
The outer rim contains meat, bread, dairy, vegetables and fruit. From there, and those ingredients, you do something many people these days have forgot. And many probably don't know ever existed....you know, sort of like a T.V. with a dial to change channels...lol. What you do with the stuff on the outer rim is "cook" from scratch.
So to me, there's a balanced meal. Real food, small portions, lots of vegetables, whole grains (real whole grains) (I soak my rice) or sprouted, healthy fats, (not canola and any other perfumed junk similar) meat/chicken/fish and then exercise. Eat till you're not hungry, not till your full.

Actually I also consider skimmed milk to be a processed food. I don't drink milk anymore but when i drink it it's whole. When I was drinking it I was getting it raw actually.
I guess I strayed from the original topic but it all relates to supplementation and the need to (or not).

I don't claim to know a whole lot but common sense combined with a little good information can go a long way. And when a snake oil salesmen comes up to me with some new magic whatever that he promises will change my life I run the other way. I put all these miracle supplements and diet plans and pills etc all in the same realm. "hey...no time to cook?" "Now you don't have to! Just pop our new meal in a box right in the microwave!" All the nutrition, and more, all in a convenient vitamin packed meal conveniently frozen. Just pop it in the Microwave." (created in a lab?)

No thanks, I'll cook.

That to me is what I consider balanced. I don't get involved in what qualifies according to the food guidelines. I think for years the food pyramid in the U.S. was upside down.

If someone's diet is very poor then vitamins may be helpful somehow...I'm not sure. Maybe it's better than nothing. But then again, that's only a bandaid and not a fix. I think you can't just keep replacing the faucet when the pipes are rotted. Get to the source.

Tommy
 
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Stop- Please Stop. You're making too much sense :thumbsup:

A balanced diet varies depending on who you're speaking to; this is true.
However, I don't think it's rocket science. I know this is such common knowledge by now it's almost cliche but.
Shop the outer rim of the supermarket only. There is nothing at all that any one needs in the aisles. That is all frankenfood and not meant for human consumption.
The outer rim contains meat, bread, dairy, vegetables and fruit. From there, and those ingredients, you do something many people these days have forgot. And many probably don't know ever existed....you know, sort of like a T.V. with a dial to change channels...lol. What you do with the stuff on the outer rim is "cook" from scratch.
So to me, there's a balanced meal. Real food, small portions, lots of vegetables, whole grains (real whole grains) (I soak my rice) or sprouted, healthy fats, (not canola and any other perfumed junk similar) meat/chicken/fish and then exercise. Eat till you're not hungry, not till your full.

Actually I also consider skimmed milk to be a processed food. I don't drink milk anymore but when i drink it it's whole. When I was drinking it I was getting it raw actually.
I guess I strayed from the original topic but it all relates to supplementation and the need to (or not).

I don't claim to know a whole lot but common sense combined with a little good information can go a long way. And when a snake oil salesmen comes up to me with some new magic whatever that he promises will change my life I run the other way. I put all these miracle supplements and diet plans and pills etc all in the same realm. "hey...no time to cook?" "Now you don't have to! Just pop our new meal in a box right in the microwave!" All the nutrition, and more, all in a convenient vitamin packed meal conveniently frozen. Just pop it in the Microwave." (created in a lab?)

No thanks, I'll cook.

That to me is what I consider balanced. I don't get involved in what qualifies according to the food guidelines. I think for years the food pyramid in the U.S. was upside down.

Tommy
 
Well then there's is always "YMMV." So I only consider my opinion about nutrition and such as just that, "my opinion." But I've been up and down the road with this trying to fit what I do to me. TO ME.

I have always been the model of health. I'm 56 right now and feel great and everyone thinks I'm in great shape. They always had. I was the answer guy for exercise and nutrition. I was still fighting full contact at 51 after years of training; more than 30 years of it. Boxing, Muay Thai, MMA, full contact bare knuckle karate, you name it. Then at 52 bam!! Heart attack. What? How? Well, the docs said that it was going to happen no matter what I did, just a matter of when. It runs in my family and I followed my fathers path even to the age by 3 years. My good health is what saved me. And it's how I went back to training in 4 months. But what happened was that even though just before my attack my cholesterol check was good and better than normal...behind the scenes my family history and genes were playing tricks on me and growing plaque in my arteries. A few months of stress in my life caused inflammation and bingo...plaque bursts....clot!!

But before that I had been fooled by "health foods." I thought I was eating healthy. So after I got sick I said,"my diet is good (so I thought) what the hell do I do now? So I researched and experimented. Lots of experimenting and research. Reading books and reading studies. Controlled studies not the ones done by the makers of foods, sups and the drug industry. I even gave up my heart meds for awhile to do more controlled studies on myself. High carb, low carb, high fat no carb, paleo you name it. I experimented with allot.
Now I just do what I do and my cardiologist says my numbers are difficult to get they are so good and I'm a model patient. My good cholesterol is higher than my low and my triglycerides are way below 100. Like 60 and sometimes less. When I take a stress test I have a crowd around me amazed because they can't get my heart rate up. I am running at a fast speed and at full incline. And my heart rate is staying low...lol.

So, yea. My opinion is just that. An opinion. But it is based on sweat and blood and it works for me. For now. The body is funny and outside stresses play a big role. But all I can say is that we should be natural. Look to nature. Get close to it. What did our ancestors do. We lived more like animals. What do animals do? We have to supplement now because our food supply is ruined. It is mostly made/designed in a lab somewhere. How can I fix that (for me) is what I ask myself. Then I try.

But thinking about your health is a start. Then the more we talk in threads like this, and run off topic but still in the vein of health it leads to more questions. the answers then research and finally more knowledge. So keep asking and keep talking. Most of all "EXERCISE."


Tommy
 
You should read The Zone Diet, by Dr. Sears. He does a nice job of addressing family history and genetics and the role it plays in our own individual situations.

Very much agreed on the "look before you leap", a wise policy. What are your supplements?

I never did go all the way with mine... I don't remember all the brands, but most of them are organic, the rest, all natural, I take a daily multi, fish oils, co-Q 10, calcium-magnesium, vitamin E, green & yellow vegetable powder, raw fiber, and a probiotic.

I'm currently following a low carb diet, but I still eat fruit. I'm going to follow the Kick Your Fat in the Nuts protocol once I get back from vaca. I am and have been taking supplements by the hand full, but will likely stop that once I finish up with what I have. For a while I was reading (couldn't bring myself to watch the show) what Dr. Oz suggested, but it seems he has abandoned a lot of his medical training and jumped on the infomercial band wagon type stuff- ketones, green coffee bean, etc. I trust and respect Will Brink and he has debunked all that krap.

As of now I take a multi, Vit C, E, Max EFAs, ALA, CoQ10, saw palmetto, pro-biotic, baby aspirin. The KYFITN protocol includes enzymes and Betaine HCL and Beet Flow- which is terribly expensive.

Creatine seems to get good billing, but I remember trying to choke down 5 grams 3 times a day for a week back in the day! Dunno if I really want to do that again- at 60 I ain't gonna look like Sergio Oliva anytime soon anyway!

The hardest thing is that there really is TOO MUCH info out there- and probably 10% is worth the paper it's printed on or the electricity expended reading about it online. But, this thread is a great addition to my reading material on the subject of supplements! Thanks to all who participate!
 
Excuse me? I maintain that you might be positing the next global health fad. The supplement industry is going global with a capital G.

As for you accusing me of not being very brotherly. In fact the opposite is the case. I am watching out for my brother, by making sure that his exposure to potential bs is minimized. Why is asking for a citation or supporting evidence when claims are made considered to be hostile?

Ok, I apologize for the term, "goggly gok".



Please help me find it. Show me some peer reviewed literature that shows why Centrum is a poor choice of multivitamin compared to another multi.



The topic of this thread is "What do you use?" but I don't think the thread is simply filled with listings, instead it seems to be "What do you use and WHY?"

I'm trying to address the why part. Are you interested in getting the thread back to that topic?

I'll stand by my original interpretation of your postings. As I said, I appreciate the skepticism, I understand and agree with your points, however I have issue with what I perceive as a deliberate lack of tact.

As for "positing the next global health craze". No, we're not. This stuff's been global for a century. Nobody's trying to sell anything here, nobody's claiming to have a magic bean that will wipe away disease. We're all educated and informed enough to know that the guy on the State Farm commercial isn't really a french model just as we know Anavite or Orange Triad isn't a panacea.

It's accepted knowledge that some forms of vitamins and minerals are superior to others in terms of the body's ability to effectively use them...just as it's accepted knowledge that the earth isn't flat. I haven't looked and I can't say that there's any peer reviewed work saying Centrum is inferior to other brands of vitamins, but if we go to the ingredient deck and check forms we can fairly easily dissect Centrum (since that's the brand you threw out there) and come to our own conclusions.

I'm not going to do the whole assignment, but I'll get it started just to be a sport. Click on the links for abstracts.

MAGNESIUM - Centrum uses Magnesium Oxide.

VITAMIN E - Centrum uses synthetic E.

VITAMIN B12 - Centrum uses Cyanocobalamin.

This is just from a cursory glance at what's in there from the label posted on CVS.com

I'm not saying everything in Centrum is inferior, or even that Centrum in and of itself is "bad". However, the fact that B12 and Vitamin E are what they are in Centrum automatically strikes it from my list of viable supplements.

I'm sure you could invest some time and come up with some litany of rebuttal and contradicting abstracts and question the sources of those links, but let's not do that. This isn't a thread debating the merits supplementation. I wouldn't begrudge you if you second guessed the AMR as a platinum source, (although I don't necessarily think it's terrible) there are other substantiating studies from more mainstream journals with regard to B12. I simply posted those links to show what a 10 minute search without a lot of sifting will yield. We all have to decide what meets our own criteria for good information and how much we want to invest in gaining it.
 
Please help me find it. Show me some peer reviewed literature that shows why Centrum is a poor choice of multivitamin compared to another multi.


The companies that take their product seriously have easily accessible studies via pubmed and such to document why they use certain forms. Asking why a company would use a co-enzymated form of a b/vitamin oppsed to a non-coenzymated forms is pretty self-explanatory.

If you really want, I'd be happy to call a buddy of mine Dan, who formulated Anavite and ask him to weigh in.
 
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