Using a Naiwa 10k hone for touching up - what am I doing wrong?

[Wile E. Coyote]

Hi all

I recently got a 10k Naniwa hone to touch up my slightly dull (but still useable) razor. I've been using the hone for over half an hour with no discernable difference.

I keep the stone wet whilst using (ensuring when it starts to look / feel dry, I apply some water) and am pushing using the spine from behind, rather than putting pressure from above if that makes sense. I know it must be my technique & not the stone, what am I doing wrong?

Cheers

[Optometrist]

I'm pretty new to honing myself so won't give you an answer that may be wrong, but may I suggest you place the same post in this forum. You may get more replies that way: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/forumdi...0-Hones-Honing

[ouch]

I'm pretty new to honing myself so won't give you an answer that may be wrong, but may I suggest you place the same post in this forum. You may get more replies that way: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/forumdi...0-Hones-Honing

[Optometrist]

Thank you, Jay.

[honed]

The 10K SS is super slow, but with some 50 laps it should get your razor shaving again. Given that it was only slightly dull.
If it needs more works, the 10K simply wont cut it. It is to damn slow, it barely cuts & most just polishes.

Also, are your strokes even & without pressure? A honing stroke takes some time to get right.

[Kentos]

Do you know if the blade was honed with tape originally?

[ouch]

Do you know if the blade was honed with tape originally?

The only guarantee that it was taped is if Slash McCoy honed it.

[Wile E. Coyote]

I've not used any other hones (i.e. lower k-grit stones); I had asked about something to get the razor back to keen sharpness & the 10k was recommended. Perhaps it was blunter than I described when enquiring? as I say though, it did still shave OK (though harder work around the chin & throat, which I put down to technique, perhaps blaming myself for the blunt blade?).. I can't justify getting a set of stones so if it comes to it, will have to send it away to someone with the resources & skill..!

[Obiwan]

Great point with the tape. Also, is the naniwa lapped? They are great stones but usually require a fair amount if lapping to perform properly in my experience.

[Gamma]

All good points above.
When you start to hone on the 10k - are you picking up streaks of swarf across the top? It's entirely possible that you might have to go back to 8k if it is.

Look at the stone with light hitting the surface at an extreme angle. Is the top surface totally continuous or do you see patches or areas that have a different 'look'? The top could be glazed over - I had this with a SS 12k and a SS 10k.
Once I saw this, I drew a grid on each stone, and then soaked them for about 15 minutes. After the stone was soaked I lapped out the grid, made another grid, lapped it out, made another grid and then I lapped that out. When dry - the top looked homogenous from corner to corner.
I lapped on a 325 dmt under running water, making sure to not let swarf build up under the stone.
At that point - I was able to use the stone successfully - before then, I had pretty much the same scenario you're describing.
Another member here had the same issue with a 12k and he PM'd me for advice, he also had this 'glazing' (for lack of a better term) and he also had success with lapping the stone until the top was homogenous.
Often - I've found that problems aren't always related to just 1 thing, instead it's a combo of things and by eliminating variables one at a time, with patience - I've been able to get past them.
After lapping, while honing, check the bevel with a loup to make sure the 10k is making contact across the bevel right up to the edge, the polish should look pin-perfect under a 4x loupe - across the entire bevel, toe to heel, and from top to bottom. If you see a teeny weeny streak of another level of polish or a hint of a scratch pattern from a coarser stone near or at the very edge - it's entirely possible that the razor was honed on tape - or the bevel isn't set right. Since you know the stone is lapped, you will have eliminated the flatness variable, and you can then decide to go to 1k and reset the bevel, or try to use tape to see if that works. I usually just set the bevel every time I get a new razor - just so I know what I'm dealing with.

[closer]

All good points above.
When you start to hone on the 10k - are you picking up streaks of swarf across the top? It's entirely possible that you might have to go back to 8k if it is.

Hi, can you please explain why swarf means you have to go back to 8k? In my honing attempts, I've found swarf to be an indication of using too much pressure, which also shows up as hone wear on the spine. Thanks.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Thanks for the replies; I don't believe the razor was honed with tape before I bought it. The Naniwa stones are man-made & I saw no indication of an unlevel surface - at any rate, had there been, presumably I'd have seen some progress on at least part of the blade? I must have done literally hundreds of laps with no results at all, and unfortunately don't have a jeweller's loup to hand to check for wear but suspect that's not the problem here.

I'm not applying any real pressure for fear of changing the bevel & Honed's comment about a 10k being only good for polishing is ringing a chord with me here; I suspect think that basically the 10k is not suitable in my case & either have to buy another stone or send it off for honing - which is what I almost did at the start - neither of which I'm happy about. I may have another 'session' on it to see if it improves with perserverance but fear I'm flogging a dead horse.

[GreatScott]

I'm having a hard time believeing you'd trash your edge with a little more pressure, especially on a10k. I take it everything went fine on lower grit stones? Other than what's been mentioned,

- A black magic marker run along the edge can indicate if your blade is in contact with the stone or not.

- Using a slurry might make the process a little faster.

- Change one thing at a time, then shave test.


Who made the razor? Not sure if it'd make a difference, but a series of 20 X strokes that would bring my Geneva back would get laughed at by my Torrey... the difference in the metals used can drive a person to drink.

[Kentos]

Before you send it off ink the edge with a permanent marker pen and run it lightly on the hone. Look to see where the ink was removed. A 10k Naniwa is fine, but is still enough to remove metal. I suspect you are not getting the cutting edge to contact the hone.

[rickboone1]

It's possible you need to go down further in grits.

[Drybonz]

It's possible you need to go down further in grits.

I agree with Rick... from your last comment it sounds like it needs more work that just a 10k touch-up.

[JZH]

You may need to go lower in grit, but you definitely need to lap the stone you have.

[Gamma]

can be pressure related too. There shouldn't be a reason to use pressure at 10k. IMO - you shouldn't be seeing 'streaks' of swarf at 10k either.
Actually - I don't like seeing it at 8k
Underhoning on coarser grits will result in swarf streaks, even if there is little to no pressure involved.

[professorchaos]

Let's be clear that there is a difference between a razor needing a touch up and one which needs to be rehoned. I never had much luck using hones to touch up. So as a rule, I touch up on pastes. If I take out the stones I am going to ensure the bevel is set and work through the progression.

[rickboone1]

You may need to go lower in grit, but you definitely need to lap the stone you have.

Let's be clear that there is a difference between a razor needing a touch up and one which needs to be rehoned. I never had much luck using hones to touch up. So as a rule, I touch up on pastes. If I take out the stones I am going to ensure the bevel is set and work through the progression.

This has been my experience. Typically a touch up, with pastes or stones or anything is never too good for me and will just pacify me for a shave. Barely. It's good if I have no hones, I suppose. I find I need to start all over. Granted, I'm not on lower grits too long.