Mystic Waters Lime - Initial Impressions and Test Lather
- Thread starter cvac
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Pretty weak lather.... In fact, I don't even see it.
- Thread starter
- #3
Pics:
1) Loaded brush (Rooney 2XL)
2) Palm lather
3)Palm lather after 1 minute to check stability
4) Wet, smashed puck showing unmixed ingredients/color variation
First, I want to say that this puck requires a very specific technique to get a decent lather. The photos you see here are actually my 4th attempt at lathering it with a third brush for the test. My first two attempts, with horsehair and boar, were quite poor because I foolishly tried to lather this soap using my usual damp brush-load-dip tips-load-dip tips-load method. That does not work with this soap, nor will a dry brush method work.
The reason for this is that the soap is very sticky and gummy, even for an Italian-style soft soap. After grabbing my 2XL for a last ditch attempt at lathering this soap, I found that that brush tended to make the top of the soap into a chewing gum texture and each time I pulled the brush off the soap, little gum-like tendrils of soap would come off the with brush. Still, it did not seem to load effectively enough to make a good lather. This may be because the soap is so slippery and gummy that it tends to stick to itself instead of your brush hair. Weird.
Finally, I decided to switch over to a modified version of the "Marco Method" that I typical use with soft soaps that are in deeper containers such as RR Artisan. I kept swirling with my wet-ish Rooney until the lather started to cream up, using no extra pressure on the brush at all. This allowed the soap to dissolve into the water until it thickened into a nice lather. I did have to dip the tips a few tips once creamy stuff was on the brush in order to prevent the soap from getting gummy. It did eventually cream up into a nice yogurt texture but that was after four minutes or more of swirling with a wet-ish brush. Folks, that's double the time it takes me to get a nice lather out of Valobra soft soap or RR Artisan. Note also that the lather looks like it's breaking down in the 1 minute test but it's not quite doing that. The actual texture is kinda like wet, creamy lotion that did not rinse off super easy...it will be interesting to see how it holds up during an actual shave.
Overall, this initial experience gives me the impression that the soap recipe here needs some work to make it a little more user friendly. Maybe there are just too many moisturizers and extra oils in this soap and that's what makes it finicky...no idea, I'm not a soap chemistry expert. Now, please don't get the impression that I'm down on all Artisan soaps or that I can't deal with "quirky" products if the shave is worth it. My point is that this soap faces stiff competition if it takes double the work to get a decent lather compared to a similar product such as a standard Italian soft soap or even a soft Artisan-made soap like Nanny's or Jabonman. That said, I'm sure the makers can improve the produce with a little tweaking.
Anyway, this stuff smells great and does make a decent lather if you are patient. I'll probably shave with it over the weekend or sometime early next week.
1) Loaded brush (Rooney 2XL)
2) Palm lather
3)Palm lather after 1 minute to check stability
4) Wet, smashed puck showing unmixed ingredients/color variation
First, I want to say that this puck requires a very specific technique to get a decent lather. The photos you see here are actually my 4th attempt at lathering it with a third brush for the test. My first two attempts, with horsehair and boar, were quite poor because I foolishly tried to lather this soap using my usual damp brush-load-dip tips-load-dip tips-load method. That does not work with this soap, nor will a dry brush method work.
The reason for this is that the soap is very sticky and gummy, even for an Italian-style soft soap. After grabbing my 2XL for a last ditch attempt at lathering this soap, I found that that brush tended to make the top of the soap into a chewing gum texture and each time I pulled the brush off the soap, little gum-like tendrils of soap would come off the with brush. Still, it did not seem to load effectively enough to make a good lather. This may be because the soap is so slippery and gummy that it tends to stick to itself instead of your brush hair. Weird.
Finally, I decided to switch over to a modified version of the "Marco Method" that I typical use with soft soaps that are in deeper containers such as RR Artisan. I kept swirling with my wet-ish Rooney until the lather started to cream up, using no extra pressure on the brush at all. This allowed the soap to dissolve into the water until it thickened into a nice lather. I did have to dip the tips a few tips once creamy stuff was on the brush in order to prevent the soap from getting gummy. It did eventually cream up into a nice yogurt texture but that was after four minutes or more of swirling with a wet-ish brush. Folks, that's double the time it takes me to get a nice lather out of Valobra soft soap or RR Artisan. Note also that the lather looks like it's breaking down in the 1 minute test but it's not quite doing that. The actual texture is kinda like wet, creamy lotion that did not rinse off super easy...it will be interesting to see how it holds up during an actual shave.
Overall, this initial experience gives me the impression that the soap recipe here needs some work to make it a little more user friendly. Maybe there are just too many moisturizers and extra oils in this soap and that's what makes it finicky...no idea, I'm not a soap chemistry expert. Now, please don't get the impression that I'm down on all Artisan soaps or that I can't deal with "quirky" products if the shave is worth it. My point is that this soap faces stiff competition if it takes double the work to get a decent lather compared to a similar product such as a standard Italian soft soap or even a soft Artisan-made soap like Nanny's or Jabonman. That said, I'm sure the makers can improve the produce with a little tweaking.
Anyway, this stuff smells great and does make a decent lather if you are patient. I'll probably shave with it over the weekend or sometime early next week.
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- Thread starter
- #4
Hahaha. I couldn't post all the pics in the first post.
Very interesting. My sample bits were all quite uniform, and lathered easily (though I have only used a wet brush method thus far). They also aren't sticky, just soft. Sort of like putty. I wonder if you got a bad puck?
Michelle seems very responsive, maybe you should email her and ask her if the consistency and texture are correct.
Michelle seems very responsive, maybe you should email her and ask her if the consistency and texture are correct.
It also took me about double the usual time to make lather with this soap. Where I thought it really excelled was in post shave skin care. My face felt really great after the shave.
I haven't had any problems lathering MW soap. I use a homemade 2 band badger and load with a drier brush. It likes water but later in the lathering process after the brush is well loaded. Try a couple of nickle size drops of water on the soap before you start loading. Good luck, it's a fine soap, IMO, with excellent skin care.
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- #8
I tried with a drier brush, it didn't work because of the gummy texture. No offense, but I did explain that.
I can also post pics of the gummy texture if anyone doesn't get what I am talking about.
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- #9
Glad to know I'm not the only one. I imagine the post-shave feel is quite nice because of the lotion texture. However, I think it would be hard for this to top something like MdC or Tabula Rasa or Calani in terms of post-shave feel, all of which lather more easily. We'll see when I test it out for an actual shave.
i also used 2 x my normal amount today and got my best lather with it. when i do my normal 30sec application, it does NOT lather well for me. i was ready to throw in the towel after a couple of tries, but turned out i wasn't using as much product as needed, but i was using as much as i do with other products.
i had to lather it as long as MWF today, my 1st successful shave with it. hopefully i can continue to get it to work, as the scents are fantastic.
i wonder how using 2x the normal application (swirls etc) plays into the overall usage of the soap and cost ratio?
i had to lather it as long as MWF today, my 1st successful shave with it. hopefully i can continue to get it to work, as the scents are fantastic.
i wonder how using 2x the normal application (swirls etc) plays into the overall usage of the soap and cost ratio?
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- #11
No offense taken, I was just explaining how I load it. It works for me. I do have some Calani coming in the mail and have used MdC but I can stand the smell. Tabula Rasa, I've never used. I've used MW Sandalwood, Lime, Marrakesh and Lily of the Valley with excellent results, YMMV.
sorry, not cost, but how fast i'll go thru the product is more what i meant. $5, $10, $15, $20 doesn't really matter to me, as long as i get a great shave day after day.
but if i had to use a 4min application, with any product, i'd be out. if it works for you, more power to you..
i'd just hate to have a product like this, only last 2wks of use, if i have to use so much more product then other soaps
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I've got 17 shaves on what I'd guess started as a 1 oz sample (test sample, not a sold sample) and I bet I have at least 5 more to go. That's at least 88 shaves on a 4 oz puck. I go 3+ passes each shave and have always had more lather than I can use.
Soft water, super badger Vulfix brush, give it 3 or 4 good shakes and load for maybe 45 seconds then go to the face, adding trips of water to the knot until I get it how I like. I've never had trouble getting great lather. I can tell you folks have a lot more wet shaving experience than I do, so I don't know why there's such a disparity in our experience with it.
I haven't tried Tabula Rasa or Calani. I think it tops MdC in skin care and is on the same level as IK.
good to know and your experience with MW is assuring.
i have no problem loading for 45sec, but a 4 minute application time (the OP) to me is unheard of, for any soap.
thanks for the tips.
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Huh?
I use it almost every day, and I never spend that much time making lather. I don't get the gummy thing, either.
When I load the soap, I don't push down like I'm trying to grab bits of the soap up into the brush. I allow the water in the brush to emulsify the soap on top of the puck, with a very light touch for the first 15-20 seconds or so (I don't time it, obviously). Once there is a nice protolather forming, I add pressure to the brush and pick up more soap.
I don't find the MW soaps to be difficult to lather in the least.
I use it almost every day, and I never spend that much time making lather. I don't get the gummy thing, either.
When I load the soap, I don't push down like I'm trying to grab bits of the soap up into the brush. I allow the water in the brush to emulsify the soap on top of the puck, with a very light touch for the first 15-20 seconds or so (I don't time it, obviously). Once there is a nice protolather forming, I add pressure to the brush and pick up more soap.
I don't find the MW soaps to be difficult to lather in the least.
used it again today, got cocky and tried to scuttle it. it broke down faster then a '78 Chevette. i could see it disappearing before my eyes.
put the brush back in the soap, swirled and face lathered it, and got an excellent lather.
looks like what everyone says is true, it does not like the heat.
i'll be face lathering or bowl lathering (not scuttle) this stuff from now on.
on a positive note, i got a great lather on the face with my Badger, Thater 2
put the brush back in the soap, swirled and face lathered it, and got an excellent lather.
looks like what everyone says is true, it does not like the heat.
i'll be face lathering or bowl lathering (not scuttle) this stuff from now on.
on a positive note, i got a great lather on the face with my Badger, Thater 2
- Thread starter
- #19
To be clear, most of the time when I load soap, especially soft soap, my soap is 90% of the way "done" w/r/t the lathering process after 2 minutes of work. I don't usually have to do much work after that to get a good face lather going for most soaps, it's primarily just applying the soap to my face in circular motions and doing some fine tuning.
What you mean about emulsifying is exactly what I had to do with this soap in order to get it to work using a wetter brush. It did not work at all with a damp brush or dryish brush using a normal amount of pressure or "extra" pressure. The soap did not stick to the bristles because it was so slick and gummy. It was most definitely gummy...not sure if my puck needed more time to cure/dry out before being "ready" or what...but I will post pics of the "gumminess" so everyone knows I'm not making this up.
When I use this for an actual shave, I will also use a timer to time the lathering process precisely. I will also try a badger brush that is a little less dense than my 2XL. That brush is very dense and tends to require a lot of product in general, though it is very efficient at loading product, especially with hard soaps.
What you mean about emulsifying is exactly what I had to do with this soap in order to get it to work using a wetter brush. It did not work at all with a damp brush or dryish brush using a normal amount of pressure or "extra" pressure. The soap did not stick to the bristles because it was so slick and gummy. It was most definitely gummy...not sure if my puck needed more time to cure/dry out before being "ready" or what...but I will post pics of the "gumminess" so everyone knows I'm not making this up.
When I use this for an actual shave, I will also use a timer to time the lathering process precisely. I will also try a badger brush that is a little less dense than my 2XL. That brush is very dense and tends to require a lot of product in general, though it is very efficient at loading product, especially with hard soaps.
By my estimate then, I would get 117 shaves out of a standard 4 oz puck...over 4 months worth for me (6days/week)
