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Lapping film, try it.

the raised dots are from debris either on or more likely under the film. It is toast. Gotta keep everything very very clean.

I took an old 4" wide putty knife from the basement and polished it on the wire wheel and then honed it to lay very flat on my granite lapping stone. Before positioning my lapping film, I will spray on clear water and squeegee it off with the putty knife. No dust dirt or debris left behind and no more ruined film after a couple of strokes. You could use any thin flat tool. I bet one of those hard plastic "Bondo" spreaders from the auto parts store would work well.
 
I took an old 4" wide putty knife from the basement and polished it on the wire wheel and then honed it to lay very flat on my granite lapping stone. Before positioning my lapping film, I will spray on clear water and squeegee it off with the putty knife. No dust dirt or debris left behind and no more ruined film after a couple of strokes. You could use any thin flat tool. I bet one of those hard plastic "Bondo" spreaders from the auto parts store would work well.
Makes sense, I like that idea.
Clearly suffering from honing addiction. :lol:
Yes, after reading that back to myself, you are absolutely right. My name is Marc, and I'm a honing addict! Haha
 
Thanks again Slash for the pointers. I have decided to upgrade my setup when I find time in the near future. I know a tile retailer in the vicinity who has polished tiles, he should be able to help me and I will get some PSA free lapping film from a UK vendor mentioned earlier on. In the mean time I will do what I can with my present setup. The hardware store straight (from the only hardware store in town that still has a few) turned out really well despite my textured tile, so much so that I had a very pleasant shave with it last night. Even if I do not have the optimal tools, this is still a huge leap forward for me.
 
What works well for me is a silicone squeegee; it used to be a silicone spatula before I liberated it from the kitchen. My routine goes like this: wet the film and put it abrasive side down on glass. Squeegee all the water (and debris) off the back side of the film and then remove the film (if you put it down, put it down abrasive side down). Squeegee all the water and debris off the glass. Wet the film and put it on the glass abrasive side up. Squeegee the film again to remove any debris and then hone. The whole process only takes about 15 seconds and the film is always absolutely clean and flat. I also use a big bowl of water (the bowl was liberated from the kitchen too) and just run the entire piece of film through the water whenever I want the film wet. The same spatula is used to add water to the film before honing too.

Brian

I took an old 4" wide putty knife from the basement and polished it on the wire wheel and then honed it to lay very flat on my granite lapping stone. Before positioning my lapping film, I will spray on clear water and squeegee it off with the putty knife. No dust dirt or debris left behind and no more ruined film after a couple of strokes. You could use any thin flat tool. I bet one of those hard plastic "Bondo" spreaders from the auto parts store would work well.
 
What works well for me is a silicone squeegee; it used to be a silicone spatula before I liberated it from the kitchen. My routine goes like this: wet the film and put it abrasive side down on glass. Squeegee all the water (and debris) off the back side of the film and then remove the film (if you put it down, put it down abrasive side down). Squeegee all the water and debris off the glass. Wet the film and put it on the glass abrasive side up. Squeegee the film again to remove any debris and then hone. The whole process only takes about 15 seconds and the film is always absolutely clean and flat. I also use a big bowl of water (the bowl was liberated from the kitchen too) and just run the entire piece of film through the water whenever I want the film wet. The same spatula is used to add water to the film before honing too.

Brian

Forgive me for asking a silly question but if you squeegee the abrasive side of the film, do you not run the risk of contaminating it with silicone?
 
Everything is subject to contamination from dust prior grits etc. Strops, felt linen etc. Working clean as possible is a given here with honing whatever you use. Wiping and rinsing off blades and hones to keep the grits from contaminating each other and film also as the swarf can always contaminate the next grit.
 
It is not a problem. The silicone is so soft that while the film may scratch it, it cannot actually remove any pieces from the spatula. Besides that, after squeegeeing the film it goes back into the container of water for a rinse and re-wet anyway.

Contaminated film was a common problem until I started using the squeegee and now it just does not happen.

Brian

Forgive me for asking a silly question but if you squeegee the abrasive side of the film, do you not run the risk of contaminating it with silicone?
 
Film came in yesterday, 1 and 3. I grabbed a nice wide plastic putty knife from walmart for surface sanitation. I'll probably hone something up tonight and see how it goes.
 
Im sure this is covered somewhere in this thread, but thats a lot to read. im interested in trying film, but dont really want to buy a lifetime supply right off the bat. i also dont really wantto pay 5-6 dollars or more per sheet. Where is the best us vendor to get non-psa lapping film in 12,5,3,&1 micron grits in small quantities? I looked at specialized and you need to buy 25 sheet packs. Thor labs doesn't have the 12 micron. The others I've found so far have psa backed film. If I need to, I'll spend $50 at specialized, but I'd rather start with a smaller purchase. Thanks
 
Im sure this is covered somewhere in this thread, but thats a lot to read. im interested in trying film, but dont really want to buy a lifetime supply right off the bat. i also dont really wantto pay 5-6 dollars or more per sheet. Where is the best us vendor to get non-psa lapping film in 12,5,3,&1 micron grits in small quantities? I looked at specialized and you need to buy 25 sheet packs. Thor labs doesn't have the 12 micron. The others I've found so far have psa backed film. If I need to, I'll spend $50 at specialized, but I'd rather start with a smaller purchase. Thanks

Since I have no intention of reading this entire thread (if lapping film is so simple, why is this thread so long?), I wonder if someone can tell me whether 12 and 5 micron grits are necessary. I have fooled with the film a few times and always gone from a 1k bevel setter directly to 3 micron film ( and then to 1 and 0.3). I would think that, particularly if using wet paper, there is no need for anything between 1k and 3 micron.
 
Since I have no intention of reading this entire thread (if lapping film is so simple, why is this thread so long?), I wonder if someone can tell me whether 12 and 5 micron grits are necessary. I have fooled with the film a few times and always gone from a 1k bevel setter directly to 3 micron film ( and then to 1 and 0.3). I would think that, particularly if using wet paper, there is no need for anything between 1k and 3 micron.

I like to use my 4K Norton between 1K and 3um film for two reasons: because, I have one and because, 4k cuts a bit faster then 3um.
Therefore, I have to agree; there is no reason for 12 and 5 micron film after bevel setting... unless you want to save a modicum of time with a few passes on 5um.
 
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Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Obviously there are success stories that do not involve 12u or 5u film. I myself don't like that big a jump. Also from a 1k stone I like to hit the 12u even though it is essentially the same grit, just because the film on its plate is flat and true. I don't know... I just like the full progression. To be honest, I have never tried going straight from bevelsetter to 3u film. Maybe I will try that one of these days. I never would have thought it was practical until I read from guys on here who do it routinely. So a great big ol' YMMV on that!
 
I like to use my 4K Norton between 1K and 3um film for two reasons: because, I have one and because, 4k cuts a bit faster then 3um.
Therefore, I have to agree; there is no reason for 12 and 5 micron film after bevel setting... unless you want to save a modicum of time with a few passes on 5um.

Looking at my images of scratches from a 4k (shapton glass stone) and 3 micron lapping film (aluminum oxide) it seems the 3 micron lapping film is courser than the 4k stone.

shapton 4k:

$Shapton_4k.jpg

3 micron lapping film
$3micron.jpg
 
Obviously there are success stories that do not involve 12u or 5u film. I myself don't like that big a jump. Also from a 1k stone I like to hit the 12u even though it is essentially the same grit, just because the film on its plate is flat and true. I don't know... I just like the full progression. To be honest, I have never tried going straight from bevelsetter to 3u film. Maybe I will try that one of these days. I never would have thought it was practical until I read from guys on here who do it routinely. So a great big ol' YMMV on that!

If you use wet paper, the resulting convexity will remove all the scratches near the edge and result in even less need for the intermediate grits.
 
I usually make the jump from a 1200 DMT to 3 micron film and it doesn't take overly long to establish the new finish. That said, jumping from a 1200 DMT (worn) to 1 micron film is not awful either if it is a new piece of film. I find film deteriorates to something like 1/2 or 1/3 effectiveness very quickly and then works for a long time at the lower level of aggressiveness.

The only 5 micron film I have is Silicon Carbide, not Aluminum Oxide and when it is fresh it is very aggressive, even more so than AlOx film. Aggressive enough to establish a new bevel on a razor that is not damaged, abused, dinged, chipped or a Gold Dollar (where you have to remove 1/4 oz. of steel to hit the front edge of the razor on the honing surface). 5 micron SiC to 1 micron AlOx is no problem.

Brian

Since I have no intention of reading this entire thread (if lapping film is so simple, why is this thread so long?), I wonder if someone can tell me whether 12 and 5 micron grits are necessary. I have fooled with the film a few times and always gone from a 1k bevel setter directly to 3 micron film ( and then to 1 and 0.3). I would think that, particularly if using wet paper, there is no need for anything between 1k and 3 micron.
 
Looking at my images of scratches from a 4k (shapton glass stone) and 3 micron lapping film (aluminum oxide) it seems the 3 micron lapping film is courser than the 4k stone.

shapton 4k:

View attachment 367621

3 micron lapping film
View attachment 367622
I think most of us were under the impression that 3um is about the same as 8K?
Unless you can accurately measure/quantify the amount of pressure and time spent on the Shapton and the 3um film, the photos/method may not be a truly accurate way to evaluate grit coarseness.
The dates on the photos indicate that they were taken 2 months apart. Were the bevels set identically before moving on to the Shapton and film? Did you use the same razor, same technique, same number of laps etc?
Was the moon full when you honed both edges?
There are too many variables to rely on this method as a way to compare grit coarseness.
Nice photos, nevertheless! :thumbup1:
 
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I have many times gone from 1200 dmt or chosera 1k to 3um and then 1 um film. I used to use an intermediate but found it unnecessary. And pressure has a lot to do with images IMO. If you ride the film hard, you will tear it up and the edge as well. Moderate to very light pressure decreasing as you go along will do fine IMO.
 
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