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Lapping film, try it.
- Thread starter Blix
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Lapping film have no MOJO
I am sure everyone has their prefernce in honing methods and mediums. But for the cost, sounds like it would be worthing checking out if you can get a good edge from it. How long does a sheet last? Is it just one and done?
Great info on Lapping Film in this thread. Should answer most of your questions.
Awesome, thanks guys
I know that you have at least one DMT
I have two. But they are diamond plates, not stones. I consider them "permanent lapping films".
Thanks! The cooling thing about honing on lapping film is that everything including the lapping plate (marble) fits in that UPS envelope in the pic.
Nope the film doesn't slide around. I pour a few drops of water on the marble, place the shiny side of the lapping film against it, do one slow lap and that's it, the film doesn't move during honing. BTW you hone the same way as you would normally hone with the edge leading. The sheet of film can be cut into three or more pieces depending on preference. This is how I usually hone:
Run edge on glass bottle a couple of times
Tape spine
12 micron usually around 90 laps or until it HHT1 (hanging hair test, 1 means it doesn't cut the hair but makes a "ping" sound) to set the bevel
6 micron 60 laps
3 micron 60 laps
1 micron 60 laps
0.3 micron (sometimes/depending)
CroX on balsa 20 laps (part of Whipped Dog poorman's strop kit)
Iron Ox. on balsa 20 laps (poorman's strop kit)
Strop on leather 50 laps (poorman's strop kit)
Usually this results in HHT3 (catch & pop) or HHT4 (hair pops off the edge). I am not sure if we've had a lapping film group buy from Thorlabs or not...
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Be sure your lapping plate is very flat and very smooth. Polished marble works good if it is truly flat. A sink cutout from a polished granite countertop will usually work. A piece of very heavy glass, like from a glass coffeetable top, is excellent. Regardless, make sure it is bigger than the biggest piece of film you might use. The ThorLabs sheets are 9 x 13, so a 14" long x 4" wide piece of glass would be ideal. One of the biggest advantages of film is you can have a big honing surface, so don't cripple yourself. I use a 4" x 12" edge tile but I am thinking about upgrading so I can use TL sheets cut lengthways in thirds.
Make sure your film is smooth and flat on the plate, with no bubbles. This is important.
Sheets are usually 8-1/2" x 11" or 9" x 13", and you can cut them into 3 or 4 pieces, each piece should hone a dozen razors, and sheets are less than a buck and a half per sheet, so you do the math. This is a cheap way to hone.
It is also an easy way to hone, easy to learn and to do. Results are extremely consistent, to the point that it really isn't a challenge after about your 4th or 5th razor. Edges are superb. The whole kit is small and light, in spite of having lots of honing real estate. The plate can also be used with wet/dry paper for edge repair or lapping small stones. Breaking the plate is a $5 non-tragedy. There is no romance or nostalgia or zen vibe... just incredible edges.
Here is a typical honing regimen for bevel setting up to shaving.
Set the bevel. 1k wet/dry or 12u film. Make sure that no shoulder or stabilizer intrusion rests on the honing surface. If you need to, hone with the nose trailing the heel, so you get all the edge on the film but not the intrusions. A shoulder intrusion will elevate the heel and prevent its honing. X strokes are not needed. Instead, vary the trail angle of the point, so that no point on the edge keeps passing over a single same point on the film. This evens out irregularities caused by flaws (minor and TBH undetectable and insignificant) in the film or the plate. This supposes that the plate is truly flat and smooth, of course, and no dust or hairs or anything is under the film. For your first few razors, try the burr method. Hone only one side, call it side A. Go 50 strokes or so, then feel the top side, side B, and you should feel a burr running the full length of the edge. If not, keep doing it until you do, counting your strokes. When you get a burr on the full length of the edge, flip the blade and hone side B, to get a burr on side A. Hone side B the same number of strokes as you did side A. Check for burr. If you have a burr full length on side A, then you are done. Otherwise, keep going until you do, then any extra strokes on side B, repeat that number on side A. Now hone with regular alternating laps, i.e. side a, side b, side a, side b, etc for maybe 30 laps. A lap is one round trip back and forth on the film. those 30 alternating laps should remove all trace of burr. Now your bevel is perfectly set.
Always use light pressure, barely more than the weight of the razor. Always keep the spine on the film. At the end, to change directions and go back the other way on the other side, flip the edge out, never the spine. The spine stays on the film, no matter what. It is your bevel guide. Lift the spine from the film, and you messed up. Start all over again.
Got your bevel? Okay, go to your 5u film. Give it 40 or 50 laps and see if you get at least HHT2 on the length of the blade. You could also spoil the edge by drawing it lightly across a glass bottle. Now it should not cut arm hair, at least not very well. Hone until it does, with the full edge, then give the blade a couple dozen more laps, and you are done with the 5u or 6u film.
Go 50 laps or so with the 3u film. This is roughly equivelant to an 8k Norton. You should be able to shave off this film, though it won't be the best shave you have ever gotten. Off the 3u film, you should get a very strong HHT2 or barely HHT3 on the full length of the edge. With the FOTFT, the Floating Over The Forearm Test, you should be able to float the blade 1/4" over the forearm and it should lop off a few hairs.
Apply the 1u film, which is roughly equivelant to a 12k Naniwa superstone, or 14k ANSI grit. 50 or 60 laps should do it. You should not get a very very strong HHT3. But you are not done. Remove the film and apply a sheet of damp paper to the plate, then lay the film on top of the damp paper. Give it another 40 laps or so. NOW you should have HHT4. The FOTFT should get you several hairs. Now you have a good shaving edge.
But maybe you aren't quite done yet. Try 40 laps on a bench strop pasted with CrOx. Balsa works great, and that's what I use. Now hit the strop about 4 dozen laps and you are ready for a great shave. For maintenance, strop on the balsa and CrOx a dozen laps after each shave, and 4 dozen on your unpasted leather hanging strop before each shave. If the razor ever starts feeling dull, Give t a few dozen laps on the 1u film over damp paper again.
Dry your films well and store them for re-use. Each piece can be used about a dozen times.
You should only have to set your bevel once. But you also should not damage your razor. If you do, you get to do edge repair and bevel setting all over again. So close yoru razor carefully, don't let other people handle your razors, and be careful to not drop your razor or clang it against sink or faucet. Happy Shaves!
Make sure your film is smooth and flat on the plate, with no bubbles. This is important.
Sheets are usually 8-1/2" x 11" or 9" x 13", and you can cut them into 3 or 4 pieces, each piece should hone a dozen razors, and sheets are less than a buck and a half per sheet, so you do the math. This is a cheap way to hone.
It is also an easy way to hone, easy to learn and to do. Results are extremely consistent, to the point that it really isn't a challenge after about your 4th or 5th razor. Edges are superb. The whole kit is small and light, in spite of having lots of honing real estate. The plate can also be used with wet/dry paper for edge repair or lapping small stones. Breaking the plate is a $5 non-tragedy. There is no romance or nostalgia or zen vibe... just incredible edges.
Here is a typical honing regimen for bevel setting up to shaving.
Set the bevel. 1k wet/dry or 12u film. Make sure that no shoulder or stabilizer intrusion rests on the honing surface. If you need to, hone with the nose trailing the heel, so you get all the edge on the film but not the intrusions. A shoulder intrusion will elevate the heel and prevent its honing. X strokes are not needed. Instead, vary the trail angle of the point, so that no point on the edge keeps passing over a single same point on the film. This evens out irregularities caused by flaws (minor and TBH undetectable and insignificant) in the film or the plate. This supposes that the plate is truly flat and smooth, of course, and no dust or hairs or anything is under the film. For your first few razors, try the burr method. Hone only one side, call it side A. Go 50 strokes or so, then feel the top side, side B, and you should feel a burr running the full length of the edge. If not, keep doing it until you do, counting your strokes. When you get a burr on the full length of the edge, flip the blade and hone side B, to get a burr on side A. Hone side B the same number of strokes as you did side A. Check for burr. If you have a burr full length on side A, then you are done. Otherwise, keep going until you do, then any extra strokes on side B, repeat that number on side A. Now hone with regular alternating laps, i.e. side a, side b, side a, side b, etc for maybe 30 laps. A lap is one round trip back and forth on the film. those 30 alternating laps should remove all trace of burr. Now your bevel is perfectly set.
Always use light pressure, barely more than the weight of the razor. Always keep the spine on the film. At the end, to change directions and go back the other way on the other side, flip the edge out, never the spine. The spine stays on the film, no matter what. It is your bevel guide. Lift the spine from the film, and you messed up. Start all over again.
Got your bevel? Okay, go to your 5u film. Give it 40 or 50 laps and see if you get at least HHT2 on the length of the blade. You could also spoil the edge by drawing it lightly across a glass bottle. Now it should not cut arm hair, at least not very well. Hone until it does, with the full edge, then give the blade a couple dozen more laps, and you are done with the 5u or 6u film.
Go 50 laps or so with the 3u film. This is roughly equivelant to an 8k Norton. You should be able to shave off this film, though it won't be the best shave you have ever gotten. Off the 3u film, you should get a very strong HHT2 or barely HHT3 on the full length of the edge. With the FOTFT, the Floating Over The Forearm Test, you should be able to float the blade 1/4" over the forearm and it should lop off a few hairs.
Apply the 1u film, which is roughly equivelant to a 12k Naniwa superstone, or 14k ANSI grit. 50 or 60 laps should do it. You should not get a very very strong HHT3. But you are not done. Remove the film and apply a sheet of damp paper to the plate, then lay the film on top of the damp paper. Give it another 40 laps or so. NOW you should have HHT4. The FOTFT should get you several hairs. Now you have a good shaving edge.
But maybe you aren't quite done yet. Try 40 laps on a bench strop pasted with CrOx. Balsa works great, and that's what I use. Now hit the strop about 4 dozen laps and you are ready for a great shave. For maintenance, strop on the balsa and CrOx a dozen laps after each shave, and 4 dozen on your unpasted leather hanging strop before each shave. If the razor ever starts feeling dull, Give t a few dozen laps on the 1u film over damp paper again.
Dry your films well and store them for re-use. Each piece can be used about a dozen times.
You should only have to set your bevel once. But you also should not damage your razor. If you do, you get to do edge repair and bevel setting all over again. So close yoru razor carefully, don't let other people handle your razors, and be careful to not drop your razor or clang it against sink or faucet. Happy Shaves!
I use the film in conjunction with my stones... Depending on the razor because not all razors respond the same to all honing methods...
I find the edges off the pink film i have... (black, pink, green).. To be the best shaving edges for me... Off the finer green the edges seem to lose something... Like they don't hold up as well to cutting whiskers... Ymmv...
Lapping film will continue to have a place at my house tho... This stuff rocks...
One side note tho... I get more than 12 razors from a piece... The last piece of pink lasted me 20 + and was still going strong when like a big dummy i accidentally cut it....
I find the edges off the pink film i have... (black, pink, green).. To be the best shaving edges for me... Off the finer green the edges seem to lose something... Like they don't hold up as well to cutting whiskers... Ymmv...
Lapping film will continue to have a place at my house tho... This stuff rocks...
One side note tho... I get more than 12 razors from a piece... The last piece of pink lasted me 20 + and was still going strong when like a big dummy i accidentally cut it....
Yeah, it lasts a long time. But it gets progressively less and less aggressive the more a sheet is used.
After reading Seraphims Synthetic thread I tracked down some film on this side of the ditch and honed a few razors. Awesome stuff.
I was using the edge of a large marble slate used for making chocolates but yesterday the wife and I were tile shopping for our new bathroom
and I asked the guy if he had any tiles that he couldn't sell due to breaks or whatnot.
I walked out with a brand new tile perfect for lapping film that didn't cost me a cent.
I was using the edge of a large marble slate used for making chocolates but yesterday the wife and I were tile shopping for our new bathroom
and I asked the guy if he had any tiles that he couldn't sell due to breaks or whatnot.
I walked out with a brand new tile perfect for lapping film that didn't cost me a cent.
Would glass be the ideal surface for using as a base? Better than scrap granite or marble counter top?
Also, what woul be ideal dimensions for the base?
I am going to order the 9x13 sheets from ThorLabs, so I would assume cutting them into three 3" strips s the way to go. So maybe a 5x15 piece of glass?
I found a website that will make a custom 5x15 and 1/2" thick tempered piece of glass for like $37 shipped. Thinking that would be perfect
Also, what woul be ideal dimensions for the base?
I am going to order the 9x13 sheets from ThorLabs, so I would assume cutting them into three 3" strips s the way to go. So maybe a 5x15 piece of glass?
I found a website that will make a custom 5x15 and 1/2" thick tempered piece of glass for like $37 shipped. Thinking that would be perfect
do you do spine leading strokes?
does thorlabs have 12u?
Slash---might it be possible for you to video yourself setting a bevel with this? Also, setting it all up, etc.?
Does anyone have any extra sheets, like 1 or 2 of each, they'd sell me? 12, 5, 3, 1?
Does anyone have any extra sheets, like 1 or 2 of each, they'd sell me? 12, 5, 3, 1?
Glass or marble is ideal. I bought a marble plate which is about 6 x 12 for $5 at home depot. I wouldn't pay more than $10. The sheets from ThorLabs are actually bigger so they can be cut in at least four pieces, so about 3 by 9. Again I wouldn't pay more than a few dollars for a lapping plate. If you want something that looks nice, get marble, just make sure it is flat and doesn't have any damage.
No, you lead with the edge, like honing on anything else.
I am not sure if they have 12µ that's what I use for setting bevels and is equivalent to about 12K grit. 15µ can also be used for setting bevels. Either will do.
Honing on film is easy. Just pour a little water on the lapping plate (flat, smooth marble or glass), put the shiny side of the film against the lapping plate, move the film around so it sticks to the plate, do one slow lap to make sure the doesn't move and hone away leading with the edge and using almost no pressure. Before honing I like to run the edge of the blade on a glass bottle to make it even and rid of tiny chips, then I begin honing. I pour fat drops of water onto the film every 30 laps. I have stopped checking the bevel on my arm hair to see if it shaves, instead I use HHT and if it pings or better I move on to the film in the progression.
15 or 12 micron to set bevels until it HHT (shave arm/leg hair or HHT1 or better). This is the most important step, setting a proper bevel.
6 or 5 micron ~ 60 laps
3 micron ~ 60 laps
1 micron ~ 60 laps
1 micron ~ 30 laps (paper underneath, slightly smaller than the film using no pressure)
0.3 micron has become optional for me.
At this point I do the hanging hair test (HHT) again. Usually HHT3 or 4.
CrOx ~ 15 laps
Iron Ox ~ 15 laps
Leather Strop ~ 60 laps
I gotta mention the difficult part was deciding and ordering. The honing part is easy. Just go for it and ask away if you've questions
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