How Sharp Is Too Sharp?

[stonehenge]

Seems like an odd question with so many of us trying so many different things to improve the keenness of our blades. But it can be a real problem once you get the honing thing down. For me, too sharp is when I bring my razor up to my face and rest it on my cheek with only the pressure from the weight of the razor and my hand keeping it in place, and OUCH, a bloody line the entire length of the razor where it touched my face. Or when it shaves off any imperfections on my face - scars, skin blemishes, etc.

Or seems to shave off a thin layer of skin along with the whiskers.

What do you folks consider too sharp - have you had that problem also - and what do you think caused it?

[Kentos]

TBO for me it's never too sharp. I thought Feather AC blades were too sharp but I got use to them and now I chase the sharpest blades I can hone up. Obviously the sharper the blade the less pressure you need, and the better your lather needs to be.

Sharp AND smooth is the goal.

[Slash McCoy]

They are all too sharp if I'm not ready, with skin prepped and stretched, and my attention on the razor. I used to surprise myself with extremely sharp and unforgiving blades when I first started using films, and insisted on finishing with .3u film instead of stopping at 1u. So, I guess, SOMETIMES a .3u film edge is too sharp. It also depends on the grind of the blade. A very tight bevel on a full hollow finished on .3u can be unsupportably sharp and harsh.

[Kentos]

I mulled over your question as I was shaving tonight, and I think a better question would be,
"how sharp is sharp enough?"

Sharp enough for me is a blade that gives a pull and tug free ATG on my upper lip and right jaw .

[Doc226]

What do you folks consider too sharp - have you had that problem also - and what do you think caused it?

I have not found a blade that was too sharp for me, some have not been smooth, but never too sharp. I have a tough beard and can get pulling WTG if the blade is not super sharp. I don't like coticule edges, for me not sharp enough.

TBO for me it's never too sharp. I thought Feather AC blades were too sharp but I got use to them and now I chase the sharpest blades I can hone up. Obviously the sharper the blade the less pressure you need, and the better your lather needs to be.

Sharp AND smooth is the goal.

I love the KAI blades, they are by far the sharpest and also smoothest around. I would use them all the time, but I really like the feel of a real straight, specially with my new found JNAT-both sharp and smooth.

I have been doing the first pass with the feather AC loaded with the KAI blades and then changing to a regular straight.

The fun part of this hobby is the experimenting.

[mycarver]

Never thought something such as too sharp existed. We all chase sharper and sharper edges and blades or at least our perception of them. Regardless of the sharpness of my blades they'll never cut me unless I do something wrong at some point.A sharp edge is never a problem , it's actually a benefit as it seems to make the shave easier and safer. I couldn't imagining dulling a blade in order to shave with it.
Like in carving, or a kitchen knife , a sharp edge is safer than a dull one.

[ouch]

I recall taking a friend to the gym back in the 80's. After he did two sets he proudly announced, "That's enough for me. I don't want to get too big."

I think that folks' worrying about making a blade too sharp shouldn't be too surprising, given some of the more obnoxious traits of the honemeister's ego that have been displayed already. It all smacks of "Gee, my incredibly scary honemeistering ability is so far beyond that of mortal men, I had better tone down my edges for the riffraff. Wouldn't want some poor slob to hurt himself with one of my blades. Perhaps I should include a disclaimer."

I think the last think you have to worry about is getting a blade too sharp.

[Doc226]

I recall taking a friend to the gym back in the 80's. After he did two sets he proudly announced, "That's enough for me. I don't want to get too big."

That is why I don't go to the gym

[brushybill]

i cant say i have had one too sharp, i do know that some blades require a little more pressure for me,
but having so many razors to use, i never seem to get the perfect feel for each razor'

[riooso]

The sharper the edge the more you can lay the razor down and the less irritation that you get. I will say that if one hones a razor and gives it to a new guy it might seem to keen because of the damage that "noobies" sometime inflict. I have found when I was using diamond films and diamond paste that the edge would be come "toothy". I was constantly slicing and nicking myself. When I changed over to just rocks and certain stropping preps all that stopped and now superior keenness and smoothness are obtainable.

Take Care,
Richard

[honed]

I don't think a razor can get to sharp.
It can how ever get to fragile and the finer it keeps, the easier it is for microchipping & other problems to occur.
Where the underlying scratches gets exposed & causes problems. But if you manage to keep an edge problem-free, there is IMO no such thing as "too sharp"
But of course, if you are used to an edge straight of the coticule & then one day handed a razor that is finished on Shapton 30K & further refined down to 0.1µ CBN & beyond, you will
certainly not get away with the same shaving style as you use with the coticule, so sure, then it is "too sharp" for that person.

I'm sorry to say, but YMMV

[stonehenge]

I recall taking a friend to the gym back in the 80's. After he did two sets he proudly announced, "That's enough for me. I don't want to get too big."

I think that folks' worrying about making a blade too sharp shouldn't be too surprising, given some of the more obnoxious traits of the honemeister's ego that have been displayed already. It all smacks of "Gee, my incredibly scary honemeistering ability is so far beyond that of mortal men, I had better tone down my edges for the riffraff. Wouldn't want some poor slob to hurt himself with one of my blades. Perhaps I should include a disclaimer."

I think the last think you have to worry about is getting a blade too sharp.

I post what what I consider an interesting topic, and get this. The only thing that tops a good honemeister's ego is perhaps the ego of the long term poster that feels he knows and understands all and respects nothing that contests his beliefs.

There is such a thing as getting a razor too sharp and any good honer can have it happen to them. The culprit is most often synthetics. Now that we are in the age of 30K stones and pastes that exhibit the finest of particle sizes, it is entirely possible to get an edge so severe that it cuts rather than glides. Just think about it. The skin is far less tough then the beard, so what we are asking for is to get the maximum sharpness to cut a very tough wire-like beard but leave skin which has been softened by extensive skin prep alone. I don't think problem occurs with natural stones - it never has for me. But it can and does with pasted strops. I have never used one of the finer synthetic stones, but I would imagine it could be possible with those as well.

I only mentioned that I have done this so as to show that it does exist and can be a real problem. It was in no way pointing to my superior honing skills, which are simply adequate, and have never made claims to the contrary. The point I tried to make, is that if I have experienced this problem, likely others have as well and points out that more than mere sharpness of edge is necessary for an excellent shave.

[paco664]

i dunno about too sharp......

but i quit finishing up my razors on .5micron diamond slurry in oil because my collection of facial scars was starting to draw stares...... they were just too damn sharp... trick420 experienced one of these edges.).. lol....

now i finish out on welsh slate *(~15k) with water..... the edges are sharp but not like they were....


i believe there is a "too sharp".... i find that feathers in my cjb shavette are more or less the same as the edges i get off the WS... the edges with the .5diamond in oil were just stupid sharp...

[Doc226]

the edges with the .5diamond in oil were just stupid sharp...

It would be interesting to see if there was a fine tooth pattern on them.

I may need to send you a razor so you can hurt me with one of those edges, I like pain.

[professorchaos]

Too sharp? Nah ... There is sharp enough to pass the TNT, sharp enough to shave WTG comfortably and sharp enough to shave ATG comfortably. Generally, I'm after the last in the list. Then there is sharp enough to shave comfortably the upper lip ATG. That's the non plus ultra in my world.

[Kentos]

I post what what I consider an interesting topic, and get this. The only thing that tops a good honemeister's ego is perhaps the ego of the long term poster that feels he knows and understands all and respects nothing that contests his beliefs.

There is such a thing as getting a razor too sharp and any good honer can have it happen to them. The culprit is most often synthetics. Now that we are in the age of 30K stones and pastes that exhibit the finest of particle sizes, it is entirely possible to get an edge so severe that it cuts rather than glides. Just think about it. The skin is far less tough then the beard, so what we are asking for is to get the maximum sharpness to cut a very tough wire-like beard but leave skin which has been softened by extensive skin prep alone. I don't think problem occurs with natural stones - it never has for me. But it can and does with pasted strops. I have never used one of the finer synthetic stones, but I would imagine it could be possible with those as well.

I only mentioned that I have done this so as to show that it does exist and can be a real problem. It was in no way pointing to my superior honing skills, which are simply adequate, and have never made claims to the contrary. The point I tried to make, is that if I have experienced this problem, likely others have as well and points out that more than mere sharpness of edge is necessary for an excellent shave.

Friend, Ouch wasn't referring to you . He was refering to certain people who hone razors for a living and claim to be the best.

[honed]

It would be interesting to see if there was a fine tooth pattern on them.

I may need to send you a razor so you can hurt me with one of those edges, I like pain.

0.5 diamond leaves teeth, not the greatest of finishers for a razor IMO.
And really, it's not that fine, I have stuff down to 0.025µ, now there is were it gets on the verge of TOO SHARP

The more I read, hone & learn I'm getting more & more convinced that one of the main reasons naturals are so popular is because you simply can't get into
the territory of "too sharp"
With a set of Shaptons & some good quality compounds you out-sharp any natural by far.
And I have tried both coticule, escher & J-nat edges honed by people who are considered "the best" at the respective hone.
But none comes even close to a Shapton 30K followed by some CBN & nano-diamonds.
Really not even close to a "regular" 0.25µ edge.
Comfortable, absolutely! But not over-the-top sharp.

That said, it's mustn't be a bad thing, all of these naturals can create an edge that easily shaves beard comfortably.
It's just that there is a very apparent difference in performance & maximum keeness one can achieve, no matter skills, somewhere along the line the stone will be the defining factor
of how sharp an edge you can get.

[paco664]

It would be interesting to see if there was a fine tooth pattern on them.

I may need to send you a razor so you can hurt me with one of those edges, I like pain.

anytime..... pm me and i will give you my address...

0.5 diamond leaves teeth, not the greatest of finishers for a razor IMO.
And really, it's not that fine, I have stuff down to 0.025µ, now there is were it gets on the verge of TOO SHARP

The more I read, hone & learn I'm getting more & more convinced that one of the main reasons naturals are so popular is because you simply can't get into
the territory of "too sharp"
With a set of Shaptons & some good quality compounds you out-sharp any natural by far.
And I have tried both coticule, escher & J-nat edges honed by people who are considered "the best" at the respective hone.
But none comes even close to a Shapton 30K followed by some CBN & nano-diamonds.
Really not even close to a "regular" 0.25µ edge.
Comfortable, absolutely! But not over-the-top sharp.

That said, it's mustn't be a bad thing, all of these naturals can create an edge that easily shaves beard comfortably.
It's just that there is a very apparent difference in performance & maximum keeness one can achieve, no matter skills, somewhere along the line the stone will be the defining factor
of how sharp an edge you can get.

the oil seems to change everything...

i also have 14k 50k 100k and 200k diamond sprays......

and pastes....

diamonds are really fun to play with on naturals like a translucent arkie or a c12k or LM/DT/WS.......

here lately tho i have been kinda lazy and just using a coticule followed by the WS *(welsh slate)..... very sharp edges and capable of a ATG moustache pass without tugging.... YMMV

and i agree about certain people who make their living honing razors......

i have yet to find one of those people capable of getting one sharper than i can.... *(and i work a hell of a lot cheaper)

[Seraphim]

The straight razor bunch here is a very helpful, fun loving, and gregarious group.

But the one thing that seems to cause friction is when issues of honing are discussed. There is a certain measure of personal pride in honing, and for those whom hone for hire, there is obviously a monetary reason for taking umbrage at differing opinions.

What I have found is not that a razor gets "too sharp" but rather, the edge does not hold up physically at some of the ultra grit levels if the standard triangular bevel is kept. See post #2 here. That edge was created using 0.1um lapping film on a precision granite plate.

Some of the results may be a measure of a particular razor's ability to take an uberfine edge, or not. Some seem to like being taken all the way out to 0.5um and beyond, some seem to fare much better at 1um or less finishing. Add to that the results caused by slight geometry changes induced by using a hanging pasted strop, for instance, or a layer of paper underneath lapping film or (*GASP*), dare I say......adding a layer of tape prior to the final finishing all add to make the answer to the question somewhat significantly less than black and white.

Some of what I hear described as diamond creating edges with "teeth" I attribute to the edge breaking down as per my linked post #2 above, much more so than to the diamond itself creating teeth in the edge during honing. From what I've seen under the scope, fine grit synthetics create a remarkably smooth edge at honing, but one that may, or may not hold up upon encountering the whiskers upon your face.

I do not have any coticles, Jnats, etc, so I cannot do a study on them, but from what I've seen, it seems that these natural stones simply do not finish the edge to the same extreme that synthetics do, and thus I postulate that is the reason for the "comfortable" edge often described by their proponents.

For myself, I do tend to get weepers when I use a brand new Feather SuperPro, yet none when I use a self honed edge. Does that mean the Feather is sharper? Or is it a result of the 25 degree final bevel angle on the Feather requiring a slightly different angle of incidence to your face that may cause more weepers?

I have found that for myself, if I stop the refinement at 1um it leads to a much more comfortable edge than taking it out to 0.3um, etc. Lately, I've been using a Dovo red pasted cotton strop to finish and have been getting very close, yet comfortable shaves. Dovo red is supposedly about a 8k, or 3um particle size.

And there is the unresolved debate about what constitutes "sharp". Is the razor as "sharp" as it can be at the bevel setting phase? Does it continue to get "sharper" as you move up the grits, or is it simply polishing that already "sharp" edge created at bevel setting?


OK, now discuss......

[Earcutter]

Well I’ll pipe up. Can there be such a thing as a razor honed too sharply? No. Can a razor be honed to the point that one could mistake it as so sharp that it’s no longer a good tool for shaving? Yes. But that just makes it a bad hone, nothing more.

You might have the biggest bullet whizzing down your barrel, but a miss is a miss.

Those teeth that we so despise in razors, are actually kind of helpful when it comes to hunting knifes and the like. Matter a fact – I don’t want a really “razor sharp” or stropped knife for anything I do other than shaving. With shaving though, the question really shouldn’t be how sharp you made the blade, but rather how usable. I use the term smooth.

I don’t want to sound like an @rse, but once you know how to hone, and you have all the equipment you need to truly sharpen a razor, the only thing left is the polish. It’s the polish I figure that makes a guy love the hone job he’s been given after knowing how to hone. Hence, if the polish isn’t performed well, you again have a bad "hone." And that’s all it is – nothing more. If that wasn’t the case we would go right from the 12000 or Coti to face (I know some of you do), but (generally speaking) we don’t. We paste and at the very min, we strop.

We all have our things – but there is no way in my opinion that one can have too sharp a razor – you can however have one that needs “smoothing.”

I liked the question - it got me thinking and that was my 2 cents lol.