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Semogue Boar...I don't get it??

Quote Originally Posted by awa54 View Post
The essential difference I feel between boar and badger is that badger makes lather first, then you spread it on your face afterward, where boar picks up product, then makes the actual lather on your face as you move the brush around.

Interesting, and makes sense. I think that's one of the reasons I'll have trouble getting 2-3 passes with the boar. With my badger, I just set the brush down, re-wet my face and lather my face again with the brush. The boar is always WAY too dry to do that. Maybe it has enough product, but not enough water. Tomorrow I'll try adding some water to the brush for a second pass.

I totally don't agree with awa54's explanation... perhaps the way he makes lather, but both types of knots for me get a bit of water, loaded with soap/cream (no lather at this point), and then create lather on my face, both types get lather all up in all parts of the knot, breach included, during the second/third pass, i am able to get to the breach lather and use it.
 
I have 4 boars, 2 Omegas and 2 Semogues, and each one produces great lather. Although I will admit I slightly prefer the Semogues.

I wonder if those who can't seem to get good lather from a boar is because when they started this whole Wet Shaving thing, they jumped the gun and went out and bought a badger before they even knew how to properly make lather? :confused1 (no offense intended)

I just don't get it. This morning I used my Semogue 1460 and had no issues whatsoever getting good lather. I soaked my brush while I showered, let it drip out and gave it one good plunge to remove the excess water. Loaded it with some Arko for about 15 seconds, and had enough lather for a 4 pass shave easily. I didn't even have to add water. The brush held on to just the right amount. The brush was less than $16 shipped from VintageScent.
 
I have 4 boars, 2 Omegas and 2 Semogues, and each one produces great lather. Although I will admit I slightly prefer the Semogues.

I just don't get it. This morning I used my Semogue 1460 and had no issues whatsoever getting good lather. I soaked my brush while I showered, let it drip out and gave it one good plunge to remove the excess water. Loaded it with some Arko for about 15 seconds, and had enough lather for a 4 pass shave easily. I didn't even have to add water. The brush held on to just the right amount. The brush was less than $16 shipped from VintageScent.

Same here this morning except I used MWF and bought my 1460 from Lee's Razor. I also have 4 Semogue brushes instead of 2.
 
This is just one of those personal preference things. If you don't like the boar and feel that it takes longer to build a lather with it, stop using it. Personally, I don't feel like it really takes longer to build a good lather with the boars than with my badgers - I primarily bowl lather. Just yesterday, I reorganized my shave gear and set things up so that only four of my brushes are readily accessible (like finally letting the kids know who your favourite are). Of the four brushes that I selected, one is a TGN Best, one is a Whipped Dog Silvertip, and the other two are boars (one of which is the 1305 and was also what I shaved with yesterday).

The boars are appealing to me because they have soft tips, but you still get back bone like no badger can provide. I think that I use the each badger and boar about an even amount of the time, but I certainly get it when people rave about the performance from a Semogue.
 
I always got more and better lather with my badgers as well, as the lather in the boar would fizzle out during my first pass. The reason why is I was dry loading the brush the same way I do badger. Then I read about Marco's method and I tried it with my Omega Pro and Cella and I have enough lather now for 2 men to have multi pass shaves. I find it's also faster that way than my old way of continually adding water to the brush while I face lather.
 
In those videos brucered gets good results, but along the way, shows the problem I have with boars. Here is his brush after loading MWF, before lathering in the scuttle:

View attachment 227395

Note the complete lack of visible product in the top half of the brush. I know he hasn't attempted to fill the brush at this stage, but my problem is that when I face lather with a boar, the lather never works its way into the base of the knot.......

Hello Ray,
what would be the point or purpose to get any soap that deep into the base of the knot ? From there it will never get anywhere near your skin or am I missing something?

You only need the upper part of the brush. Like painting - all the paint getting too deep into the brush is just a pain afterwards to clean with whatever brushcleaner you need to use depending on the type of solvent the paint is based on. If you press the brush so hard on the soap and during lathering, then you are wasting soap as you push it somewhere where it is of no use anymore and potentially you will damage you brush in the long run as it is nearly impossible to get the base of the knot perfectly clean. It will start shedding hairs due to the soap scum built-up deep in the knot. Just my 0.02$ but as I said initially, maybe I'm missing something:confused1.
 
Hello Ray,
what would be the point or purpose to get any soap that deep into the base of the knot ? From there it will never get anywhere near your skin or am I missing something?
All I actually want is to get 3 passes out of the brush without the lather thinning excessively between passes.
I nearly always get great lather for the 1st pass with a boar. The second pass is adequate. By the 3rd I'm usually making do with substandard lather.
While I'm willing to reload, it's not something I need to do with badgers.
I merely observe that (A) There isn't enough lather. (B) The base of the knot tends to hog water and repel lather.
It seems reasonable to wish that lather would fill the brush, and conclude that I'm doing something wrong. I just don't know what. I really have experimented and given the brush enough use to break it in (continuous 3 months' use at one point.)
 
Okay...I feel like that now I'm starting to get it

MY
Key takeaways thus far (notice I said MY...YMMV):

1. Some folks are VERY passionate about making sure everyone is at least exposed to the option that boars are different but at least equal to a badger
2. The reverse does not seem to be true
3. "Easy" and "Fast" are not words even "boarites" or "Semoguetistas" use to explain the WHY of using one of their prized possessions, but "Feel" and "Experience" are important words
4. Many people are so busy defending (1.) that they completely overlook (3.)
5. Most (and I use that word intentionally) are in the same boat I'm in, and have trouble with boars...that leads us back to (1.) which is why this thread could conceivably go on forever

I'm starting to think that one of the draws to boars, and Semogue boars specifically is that they are a very good, well crafted product, at a VERY reasonable price. There is much to appreciate about a quality, no frills utilitarian brush (not that Semogues are not attractive, but that is not their focus). It actually plays right into what most all of us believe in, and what attracted us to this little hobby of ours to begin with...simplistic quality. At it's core our hobby is a brush, some soap, a blade, and a razor; all of which can be acquired for less than $10 and will give most all of us 95% of the satisfaction that we are looking for. If one wanted to acquire...collect...test...use the best badger brushes available, that might be a difficult task; however, with boars, and in particular Semogues...Well, you get the picture.

I don't think we can ever come to a resolution on this Republican vs Democrat debate of brushes (I'll let you decide which is which), but I do think, that I for one, understand "the reason for working at it" a bit better. If the discussion continues, great, if not, I still think I will continue to adjust my technique to allow a place in my heart for my 610 and 620. Sorry, you will not see either one on BST anytime soon.

Tod
 
I'm glad you included that pic, because you are correct...when I look at most boar videos, they use 50 times more product, end up with a watery sludge and are proud of the results. I'm sorry, but I couldn't shave with that stuff. Nor would I want to because my badger would have given me a very think robust amount of cream. Are the boar users holding up this video as "the explosion of cream" that's been referred to?

It's not a Semogue but may be applicable:

For what it's worth that's exactly how I shave with my Semogue... run some water over the brush, splash some on my face, and go... none of the hot towel, hot shower, soak my brush for 15 minutes and load my brush for 10 seconds each upside down, sideways, and both CCW and CW directions... It's shaving, folks...

I went from Tweezerman to TGN restores to a Semogue 1438.
And then I stopped.

That paint brush is the only other bush I've used in about a year.

Beware of the man with just one gun (brush). He probably knows how to use it. :)

:-D
 
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3. "Easy" and "Fast" are not words even "boarites" or "Semoguetistas" use to explain the WHY of using one of their prized possessions, but "Feel" and "Experience" are important words

Yep, I think that pretty accurately sums up how it is for me. If I want quick and easy, I'll go for my Rooney silvertip badger, but when I want a nice relaxing face massage, it's the SOC :001_smile
 
3. "Easy" and "Fast" are not words even "boarites" or "Semoguetistas" use to explain the WHY of using one of their prized possessions, but "Feel" and "Experience" are important words

Hmm I'd have to say the complete opposite for me. If I want a quick no hassle shave, I grab my boar as I use hard soaps most times and I can load up my brush with enough lather for a 4 pass shave in 15 seconds. Which throws out the "use more product" for boars theory. If anything, it's the opposite, for me anyways.

But in the end, I love badger brushes just as much as boar.

When I first started with wet shaving, I wasn't going to splurge a few hundred dollars just to find out if I like it or not. I kept it on the cheap side at first. By the time I realized this is going to be a long term thing, I was already making fantastic lather with a boar brush. So then you come to these forums daily and see people bragging up their $100+ brushes. And you're there making fantastic lather and getting the best shaves of your life with your $10-$15 boar while the next member, who is also getting fantastic shaves, payed 3 to 10 times what you did for his brush. And there's nothing wrong with that if that's what makes them happy.
 
Two brushes, identical technique (see spoiler at end.)
Click to enlarge.





Method: Soaked each brush for 5 minutes in distilled water at 150°F.
Scuttle warmed to 110°F. 1/2 tsp of Proraso placed in it.
Brush taken out of water and held until it stopped dripping.
Taken to scuttle and lather built for 3 minutes.
NB 1/2tsp of cream is too much, but I knew that 1/4tsp would not fill the boar brush well, so I fed it what it needed.
There was a lot of water taken up this method (20ml by the boar, 33ml by the badger.)
The mix worked well for the boar, I didn't feel a need to add water.
The badger held too much water. The mix started like soup and took the full 3 minutes to work into good lather.
Despite the method favoring the boar brush, the badger did make more lather, and it was good.
 
Okay...I feel like that now I'm starting to get it

MY
Key takeaways thus far (notice I said MY...YMMV):

1. Some folks are VERY passionate about making sure everyone is at least exposed to the option that boars are different but at least equal to a badger
2. The reverse does not seem to be true
3. "Easy" and "Fast" are not words even "boarites" or "Semoguetistas" use to explain the WHY of using one of their prized possessions, but "Feel" and "Experience" are important words
4. Many people are so busy defending (1.) that they completely overlook (3.)
5. Most (and I use that word intentionally) are in the same boat I'm in, and have trouble with boars...that leads us back to (1.) which is why this thread could conceivably go on forever

I'm starting to think that one of the draws to boars, and Semogue boars specifically is that they are a very good, well crafted product, at a VERY reasonable price. There is much to appreciate about a quality, no frills utilitarian brush (not that Semogues are not attractive, but that is not their focus). It actually plays right into what most all of us believe in, and what attracted us to this little hobby of ours to begin with...simplistic quality. At it's core our hobby is a brush, some soap, a blade, and a razor; all of which can be acquired for less than $10 and will give most all of us 95% of the satisfaction that we are looking for. If one wanted to acquire...collect...test...use the best badger brushes available, that might be a difficult task; however, with boars, and in particular Semogues...Well, you get the picture.

I don't think we can ever come to a resolution on this Republican vs Democrat debate of brushes (I'll let you decide which is which), but I do think, that I for one, understand "the reason for working at it" a bit better. If the discussion continues, great, if not, I still think I will continue to adjust my technique to allow a place in my heart for my 610 and 620. Sorry, you will not see either one on BST anytime soon.

Tod

Although your theory is interesting, it definitely doesn't apply to me. I actually find it faster to face lather soaps with my boar brushes. Cost isn't an issue or my British Aritsocrat #15 wouldn't be part of my rotation. I like my badgers, but if push came to shove and I had to choose one brush, it would probably be my 610. This doesn't take away from how much I like my Simpson brushes. I'm happy to get to use both. I find it easy to understand why someone may prefer badger brushes, but find it difficult to comprehend why anyone would be surprised that many don't.
 
To the OP. Be more aggressive with your brush. Mash it in the soap. Don't be afraid to use some pressure while lathering.

My 830 likes it rough :) Babying the brush results in the issues you describe - inadequate lather that peters out after the first pass. Get the soap into the knot, work the knot while lathering. My results improved tremendously once I stopped treating the brush with kid gloves and put it to work. 3 passes + touch up is adequate lather for me at least - if I haven't got the job done by then it's time to admit defeat for the day IMO.
 
Two brushes, identical technique (see spoiler at end.)
Click to enlarge.





[/Spoiler]

Those are some illustrative pictures, thanks for posting them. I would love to see how this compares to my typical results. If this thread has legs and makes it to the weekend, I will take the time to recreate the experiment and take some pictures. Since this thread is about Semogue, I will use the 1305 and put it up against something Finest or Silvertip.
 
One of my first brushes was that Omega 48 so many people rave about. I still can't get it to lather well to save my life. Either I load too much product or not enough water. I'm no boar hater: I have the "stubby chub" Omega 10051 that is a beast and does me well, and in all fairness I ordered a SOC since it gets heaps of praise. "I want to believe."
 
Is it possible to load too much product? Not being a smart*ss, I would really like to know


One of my first brushes was that Omega 48 so many people rave about. I still can't get it to lather well to save my life. Either I load too much product or not enough water. I'm no boar hater: I have the "stubby chub" Omega 10051 that is a beast and does me well, and in all fairness I ordered a SOC since it gets heaps of praise. "I want to believe."
 
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